The best non-WC year for Mexico?

Con puro wuebo jugamos ahora y jugando feo ganamos.I like.

 

Looking pretty damn good so far. Hopefully the rhythm they showed in tonight's game carries on the rest of the cup.

 

new generations are getting used to win and that will help us in the future, mentality and confidence is what we always lacked... i am very optimistic about the future of la seleccion...
i believe that "el ya merito" and "jugamos como nunca y perdimos como siempre" will no longer apply to us anymore in the near future

 

Yeah I hope they lift that trophy. They've gotten this far, they can't choke now.

 

the only years that challenges his year is 99

won Confederations cup

won Panamericanos (Useless I know)

Quarter finals in u20 (Beat Argentina 4-1) The team was too overconfident after beating the ches

3rd place in Copa America

I take this year for sure though.

 

Just too bad Mexico didn't go the Copa America with the real squad.

 

completely agree

seriously dude. I am even willing to bet that if the FMF didn't punish those 8 players (Fabian, Jona, Cortez, etc), the team would have done better.

but yes, I do believe that this year all our NT (Sub17 - Mayor) have done well and make a case for Summer 2011 being one of our best seasons ever

 

Well, I'm off to wikipedia to see if anyone has achieved the Youth Double or who has come closest to doing so. Or the Treble (Confederation Championship + both Youth WCs).

Rep to whoever beats me to it.

 

I don't see it as getting used to winning, I see it as rather that the game in Mexico has evolved in younger generations due to the older generation contributions, as their game grows so does their confidence & mentality. It's to be expected when a nation is passionate about a sport for a long period of time. Sooner or later, players are bound to discover & learn how to really play the game due to tactics, technique, creativity, team-work, hard work, ect. On top of that, another thing sped up the process, the population has grown about three times from fifty years ago, so the crop of players grows, more games are being played, more competition, elevating the competition, interchanging experiences/ skills, ect. All of these factors accumulate over time and are being past down from one generation to the next, which in turn produce many skillful players and the evidence is showing. Gradually, more & more talented players are going to transfer to the senior level and will be having more talented players in the 11 than ever. When this happens, its going to be epic.

 

denle el adios al "jugamos como nunca pero perdimos como siempre", y denle la bienvenida al "simplemente ganamos".

 

Subs. Definitely the best futbol summer. U17 World Cup, Copa Oro, U20 semis so far, and Chivas kickin ass

 

Brasil won both U-17 and U-20 World Cups in 2003; interesting side note, in both tournaments, they beat Spain 1-0. France won the Confederations that year. Other than that it doesn't look like any country has won both youth championships in the same year.

Like everyone else I'm very excited for these coming years. As long as we have a team with a lot more speed all around (getting rid of Torrado and Castro will certainly help) I think we can be serious contenders in Brasil 2014.

 

I attribute it to the globalization of the sport, and Mexican players simply aiming higher. When I was younger, Hugo played at RM, but his games weren't on all that much, there was no youtube to see instant hilites, and all we had to see how he did was the next day's paper (or accion). It was as if he was playing on another planet.

Even as soon as 10 years ago, the highest a player would strive for would be to play for Chivas or America, and the national team. They made good money doing so, so they didn't think they needed to go abroad, and that's fine for them.

Now we have players seeking a new challenge: Memo going from America to Ajaccio? That is unprecedented.

These kids have more ambition, determination, and embrace the challenge. They have proven to themselves and everyone else that they have the chops to play with the big boys, and now they want to make a living doing so.

I think it's great.

And I do think we should also give credit where credit is due. We all love to bash FMF for their money first, sport second business model, but at least they have had the good sense to create the U15, U17, and U20 tournaments, so that the youngsters can hone their skills.

My wish is that the FMF becomes a copycat league and teams begin to emulate what Chivas and Pumas have done. I have a feeling Chivas are on the precipice of a long run of excellence, and they are going to do it with cultivating homegrown youngsters, not spending ludicrous amounts of money on burnt-out foreigners.

 

I think based on:
1.the Gold cup showing, we didn't just win, but we won good.
2.the generation from the u17 '05 wc, is the backbone of the senior NT.
3. This summer our 'u17 are WC champs and hopefully our u20 too,

with this fact, we wouldn't spazzing, if we think that we will be serious contenders for the WC14 and/or WC18.

 

Others have said a variation on this, what impresses me the most is that we don't have amazing teams. We have teams that go about their business and just get the job done. That says a lot about their change in mentality, rather than just being a golden generation.

One thing that has helped with the club youth squads has been the constant international tournaments. Chivas sent another batch of 14 year olds to Scandinavia this summer. Atlas is out there too. I don't hear much about Pumas squads abroad, but Tigres, Pachuca and Cruz Azul have started to send teams to multiple tournaments.

The press (and general soccer community) has obsessed so much over the "quinto partido" that they lose sight that we've made it out of the group stages a remarkable number of consecutive WCs, especially considering we don't go beyond the R16. I'm convinced that once we get that monkey off our back, we'll see more success at the senior level. It may not be a title, it may not be every WC, but it'll definitely be worthwhile.

 

you are right. the u20 team is a clear example of that. the u17 team that won the wc this year was very good, but was not a cut above the rest like the '05 team was.

 

We have come a long way. I still remember getting all excited in the 94 world cup over the tie against italy and considering it a monumental "win". (like the nads did when they tied us Lol). But now we want THE win whenever we play big teams.

And to think that the current National team mentality began with an bunch of 17 yr olds in 2005.

Vamos muchachos!!!

 

We'll see how great it is when the Sr. national team can't hold a camp longer than 3 days per month.

We'll see how great it is if our Sr team if the manager cant find a cohesive unit.

We'll see how great it is when we have to bend backwards to European clubs.

If the youth levels (u15, u17, u20) were truly taken as a systematic approach at the development of players and fomenting a style of play that every player understood and could build upon and know what to expect once they advance unto a higher level (u15>u17>u20>u23), this exodus of players playing in bottom feeder leagues/clubs wouldn't concern me.

be wary what you wish for.........

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as far as the school of thought that it is better to produce players at the club level as oppose to buying them....you have to wonder at the Champions League the past 20 or so years.... because it has been teams that buy.....it just so happens that the indian dance rain works because he stays out until it rains.... Barza (03-07) and Ajax (95) also bought players... they did not produce them all.

 

I'll let John defend himself, but I took the second clause in his "club producing players" statement to be a throwaway point, not part of his argument. I took his argument to be that it would be good for Mexico if other clubs emulated Chivas and Pumas, as that would broaden the pool of eligible players.

I for the most part agree with John's primary statement, though I think you need a certain balance so as not to exclude foreigners who actually contribute to making the league stronger.

 

in numerous of his blogs he has vilified clubs that buy talent

LETS BE VERY VERY VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS.

Youth academies, in the modern era serve as tax shelters. You can disguise it as a club serving a cultural and academic responsibility. I suggest you read up on how Pachuca's Jesus Martinez was able to acquire the land he got and how got very generous tax breaks from the Hidalgo Gov. You can read up on Real Madrid's Cd. Real Madrid and how its complex serves as a tax shelter of sorts. These complexes add to the equity of theses clubs which increase their value.

So lets not treat clubs that set academies as descendants of Mother Teresa.

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Going back to emulating Chivas and Pumas youth systems.

What if selling players to alleviate debt responsibilities was truly the ultimate motive behind some of these transfers? These clubs were hit hard as of late, one (Pumas) for mismanagement and the other for assuming more debt (Chivas).

I still say, because history backs me on this, that Mexico's best players came from clubs that depended on foreign talent.

Chivas, in the past 35 years, has really only produced 2 players that in my opinion are world class calibre....Salcido and Hernandez. Salcido, IMO, will go down as of of Mexico's best defenders. The jury is still out of Chicharito, but he has done well. Cruz Azul, UNAM, America, etc have historically produced Mexico's best players, and they depended on foreign players. Nothing more can be said about that other than having better competition elevates the standards

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How many times have we seen players that light it up at the club level, but for reasons unbeknown to us can't emulate that same productivity at the national level???? Too many to count huh? Paco Palencia, Misael Espinoza, etc

The only "logical" explanation is "les pesa la camiseta" That explanation may be good enough for the nubertos...

The truth of the matter is that in most instances, the player is played out of position or given a different role within the team.

Take Omar Bravo. In Chivas and under their style of play, he was very dangerous. Bravo, Medina, etc were very fast and precise in the open field and in counter attacks. He would then go unto the NT and he would receive passes with his back towards the goal???

Going back to what I previously said that if the FMF (notice I did not say clubs) actually took a systematic approach at developing players and instilled in them a philosophy and a style of play, it wouldn't matter what the clubs taught in their academies (fuerzas basicas) because in theory, once a u-15 player makes it to the u17 team, the player would know the system of play, would be familiar with his role... that experience would then carry onto the u20 level and eventually unto the sr national team. For this to happen, it has to happen at the FMF levels, not the club level. Each youth level has to be in constant communication with the other

 

I don't take umbrage with the act of signing foreign players; just be smart about it. The sad reality is that most MFL clubs would rather take their chances with a guy who is on the wrong side of his career, or others who have no business playing in the MFL or otherwise. But they do so just because their passport says they are from country x. That said, there are plenty of foreigners that make the league better. I don't deny that. But there are a lot more that don't.

It makes sense that these guys are here because the MFL is and has been a seller's market for foreigners. Marginal players can make a lot more in Mexico.

So it would be nice to see teams that don't necessarily rely on this business model enjoy success, and if they do, that it spreads a little. Look from within as much as you spend from without. The statute permits 5 foreigners, but it doesn't mean teams are obligated to fill the cuota (or maybe they are).

 

you can blame the rapid firing of coaches and the short seasons for some of that. 1 bad month can ruin your season. would you trust your coaching job/career to an unproven kid? so all in all fear is driving these types of decisions.

 

YES at original question.