I watched France vs USSR from 1983 over the past couple of days and the likes of Platini, Giresse and Blokhin did not disappoint (ofc like Rivera they're players I like to see when at their best). Platini had of course a clever backheel near the very end, but also Blokhin at some points with a good sense for defender's movements (replay at 9:34 - where one can see the curve on the backheel which totally wrong-foots Platini of all people!). I understand that some would see this as a very futile, but just as an example and I rate that play, yes. Nice match.
I saw now that just a few months ago a brief compilation was uploaded. It is really among his best imho. As an interesting juxtaposition, here Gullit in the same match. Also the Fiorentina 1992 game that someone else mentioned in this thread appeared in the timeline.
I found a solid game that captures two players that you tend to like; As you know I was struggling with thinking of and highlighting Bergkamp's best games, and I ended up with naming the games vs AC Milan where he was indeed good and productive in the several matches he played against them, although I'm still not sure whether they're at his very best (also interesting is a game where he was man marked by Vierchowod, found brief commentary here). On the road to the UEFA Cup as topscorer he did play fine too though against Borussia Dortmund (shot on the post here) and I tag you for this because Sammer showed (I think) the range of his abilities in this match too. In the sense of give and goes, distributing the ball around.
Thanks, I'll take a look. Bergkamp, I always rated and appreciated indeed but yes it's maybe hard to say all things considered "here is his best game". I remember I showed you by PM this Match of the Day highlights video as example of him playing well for Arsenal, but again not sure even with full game viewable there'd be a case for picking it out over many other similar examples: For Sammer I'd think indeed we'd have to be looking for a performance with particularly good attacking contributions in general and/or at specific key moments indeed. That would be early for a peak example I guess, but could be interesting if he was a bit 'under the radar' at that point - I'll have to check whether he's playing sweeper or still in midfield too....but I know he could be useful as a midfield player and might even have peaked in that position at Dortmund before moving back I guess (not familiar enough with the overview really - Gregoriak would know much better for example of course).
Yeah, I watched those moments and a bit of that second half in general so far and certainly if that Bergkamp effort had gone in then it would be a really excellent goal (I think also for example if he scores with the attempted flick vs Villa in the MOTD game I posted, maybe that game then becomes a possibility among his best which should contain both generally impressive/useful play as well as significant goals/assists/chances created I suppose....so it can be fine margins in translating a generally speaking peak form game into a 'best ever' game - I seem to think I also saw some highlights, and I mean recently as opposed to recalling it clearly from the time, from that Villa game with an excellent crossfield pass to make a chance by him but could be wrong and getting mixed up with games from that season). Sammer does seem involved plenty in prompting and advancing the play. Thinking of midfield performances of note, I remember Trevor Brooking was impressed with him in that position in the Euro 92 Final (I also saw it relatively recently on ESPN Classic). I do think, for slightly different reasons to Beckenbauer, he did thrive with the momentum of advancing from the back rather than picking the ball up in a stationary midfield position...so I'm guessing to reflect him at his very best it can be a game he did play as sweeper (Kicker ratings can give good clues in his case again I suppose, and maybe Euro 96 games like vs Russia might be in the equation).
Nice ideas. What would be your ideas for Laurent Blanc? (Who was perhaps his successor as the world's most applauded cultured defender). Thought the 1991 game vs PSV was really very, very good by him.
I'll have to look at that one! Probably I just remember him in general, rather than one particular stand-out game, but I was aware of him around that time as Brian Clough was interested in buying him for Forest (so clips appeared on the local news I'm pretty sure!). btw, if the Euro 92 Final is really a good candidate for 'best ever' game (by one of the 'great' players) I'm sure it would be Peter Schmeichel (maybe already mentioned on the thread though, as I forget what has been exactly).
Thinking back to when we were re-capping on Euro 96 and reviewing some games, I do think France vs the Netherlands from that tournament can be a good one for him actually though.
In the recent FFT (I don't always see/read it, or read everything but my eye fell on this) I saw Tony Adams had re-seen his own game against Netherlands in 1996 at Wembley, and he ended up thinking that he wasn't that good (page 75). Also in the context of this thread that's an interesting remark. That players (the captain in this case) have a different view when seeing it again. Although I think the former attacking midfielder Laurent Blanc had a very good technique for a defender I can understand and see that with his imposing and dominant style Sammer was a bit higher rated at his peak (from calendar year 1994 to 1996 roughly, although ESM ends the peak recognition earlier), also when ignoring an iffy thing as the Ballon d'Or. Probably Blanc only found the 'ultimate' environment as his defender self when he was already past his physical prime (i.e. after 1995). Anyway, I was just thinking about it when encountering the match and going through all Ballon d'Or winners and top five finishers. Sammer was/is two years younger than Blanc - I was thinking about who was Sammer's 'successor' as most applauded sweeper-style defender. Thanks, and yes good call about Schmeichel.
Yes, I'd noticed that Sammer Rangers video, and think there is enough there for it to be an example of his capabilities/style and suchlike in prime time/role. I suppose going forwards Blanc was the smoother (dribbling at least), but Sammer, perhaps aided by literally being the 'extra' central defender, maybe indeed made things happen more frequently towards the opposition goal and had a bit more cutting edge with his own shots (volleys, drives etc). Defensively, maybe Blanc even again the most assured if in a well functioning unit and in good form/shape, but Sammer able to be a bit more combative and active with tackling etc?
Yes, I agree with those observations. With the passing I also think Sammer could give a bit more pace to the ball (a useful characteristic) while Blanc (as early as 1991) had finesse in his passing, from more variable pitch positions, if at his best form, but often lacking in pace and piercing often. There are however some scenes where he's running with the ball and then delivers a long pass with pace - in the way he could do this from unusual pitch positions he was quite good. Sammer was better in playing diagonal balls to the sides. Both were only average with their weaker foot. Generally I think many players improve their passing with age (by necessity or practice).
Did a bit of research for Gianfranco Zola and I think this match from 1994-95 (one of his stand out seasons) fits that description (Parma vs Sampdoria march 1995). Showing strength and skill throughout the first half. Imho the best player on the field, in the first half at least. Example 1 (also this one) Example 2 Example 3 (runs until 22:40) Example 4 (not a particularly hard pass, but a good turn and moment) Example 5 Example 6 It had also some other fine players on the field, such as Mihajlovic as a midfielder, Asprilla, Couto, Platt, Mancini, Lombardo, Sensini and of course also Gullit. Example 1, Example 2, Example 3, Example 4 (the strong Couto engages him but loses the duel) I think those examples for Zola (from the first half) illustrate sufficiently it was an outstanding display. Not against the very best opponent, but from the era when the mid table teams were at their strongest (or most competitive; said also the English commentator in another game), and in general hardest to stand out against. I was at the same time also looking a bit for a Gullit's "best game" (rather than 'significant') and I think it should be one where his passing was prominent or with some nice flick. Think this one for Zola is fine (there are some more scenes in that match).
Some beautiful colourised football art prints of The Beautiful Game available from this website. http://thedribblinggame.com/art-prints/world-cup/
I was tempted to use the other thread about best players in general, as I had for my observations about Platini and Tigana vs Yugoslavia in 1985 recently; with Savicevic discussed already earlier and not on Peterhrt's 100 player shortlist and with even me probably putting him in a second 100 on that thread of Peter's; and with this not being a thread entitled 'Worst games of best players' which might be more appropriate for Maldini - not trying to be negative as much as saying "don't judge him on this game if you don't know him!" - he did make a few decent contributions defensively but most of all gave the ball away a lot....(at half-time I might have seemed to be heading towards half a point lower for Maldini at least, and meanwhile perhaps at least half a point higher for Boban)... But I've had a full watch of AC Milan vs PSG from 94/95, and to the nearest 0.25 I might go with these grades for the Milan players (showing in the formation they reverted to when Tassotti went off quite early to be replaced by Galli who went to CB, with Maldini to LB and Panucci to RB; late on Donadoni came into the midfield after Simone was taken off; if I had to rate their time on their pitch maybe I'd say about 5 out of 10 for Tassotti, and 6 out of 10 for Donadoni): Rossi (6.25); Panucci (6.25), Galli (6.5), Baresi (6), Maldini (4.75); Eranio (7.5), Albertini (7.25), Desailly (7), Boban (7.75); Savicevic (8.75), Simone (6.5) I think next I will try to do the same for the other CL finalists Ajax in their big win against Bayern Munich at home.
I had a look now and think I go with this: Van der Sar (7); Reiziger (5.75), Blind (6.5), Bogarde (7); Rijkaard (7); R. De Boer (8.5), Seedorf (7); Litmanen (8.75); Finidi (7.5), Kanu (7.75), Overmars (8) Kluivert played enough as sub to get a 6 maybe. Davids would have to be a default 5.5 or something, but not sure he touched the ball so a rating would seem a bit pointless. So a notable and excellent one for Litmanen (generally speaking among the 'best ever', at least wide with a wide overview I'd think), and very good too for Ronald de Boer and also Overmars.
Yes I've seen now 60 minutes of Italy vs Germany of euro 1996 and so far I think it might be his best game ever at euro level (1988, 1996, 2000). In constructing play and such no, but in 'reading' yes. Fuser was also very dangerous in this match I think. As you know it is actually hard to watch all 22 players at the same time but with midfield neutralizing each other I think Maldini and Fuser stand out then. I know Sammer was much better against England (and Maldini a factor three worse vs Poborksy!), but in this game one would struggle to see what was so majestic about him. He even made two or three very big mistakes, including the lead up to the penalty of Italy. This was then also his lowest rated game by France Football to be fair. Had also the idea Zola was a bit lost. Technically without real errors, but almost as if he was the right player in the wrong era (or wrong tournament). He was disconnected and dis-synchronized from the team.
I'd have to check the Euro 96 thread, but I'm thinking his ratings from Italian sources were very good for that game. I think Zola had been good in the opening game then rested before that one hadn't he (again, if I recall correctly). Maybe playing all 3 to get into the rhythm properly would have helped but who knows? At club level, maybe that's a little but of an in between period in terms of his best form (after his Parma prime and before his Chelsea one).
Yeah I've seen now the rest and in the last 35 minutes or so more spaces appeared on the field and Di Matteo + Albertini got to show their abilities more. Fuser was close to invisible in the 2nd half whereas Donadoni did sporadically some useful thing. Substitute Chiesa made initially quite an impact, but then fizzled. Sammer entered more in his element in those final 35 minutes too (covering for defenders, forceful interceptions), but still not really a good game by him. Overall I think Maldini as man of the match would be fair, he totally neutralized Bobic and Klinsmann and this is possibly his best match at euro level. Maybe he was too young still in 1988 (didn't look good against USSR there) and a bit too old in 2000 to be really at his best (struggling and fouling Overmars a lot, for example - in fairness the whole Italy defense had problems against Overmars, Zenden and the here quick-footed Bergkamp in particular).
Yeah, looking at the thread now, I see La Repubblica gave him a good 7 out of 10, but were actually big on Albertini as MOTM. And there seems to be consensus on Maldini playing well, but disagreement about whether actually Helmer (not Sammer indeed) was better that game: http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubb...etto-rigore-italia-torna-casa.html?ref=search https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-best-players-of-euro-96.2037213/page-4 http://www.rsssf.com/tables/96e-fullstats.html http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/euro-96-xi-1338259.html
Is the semi final perhaps a prime example of a great game (a classic game) where actually some of the less famous names stole the show? Eilts, Anderton, McManaman. Of the 'greater' names, although they were all decent or solid, probably Gascoigne did best. For Gascoigne this is probably a game that should be in his list, if we make one.
Yes, from memory (and ratings as I guess you've been checking - you might even have seen the FF ones but perhaps not for every phase/game actually but more of a summary?) that seems about right. For Gascoigne I felt his game vs the Netherlands would also be in the mix personally (I'd hinted that on the Euro 96 thread itself and posted his match video although now it is not available).
Davids his most famous game in an Ajax shirt was against Borussia Dortmund in 1996, by the way (on footballia). Many of those homegrown players in this match featured as starter in other EC finals (1989, 1990, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011). What would be other stand out games of Gascoigne? In 1990 vs Czechoslovakia (friendly) I guess, some FA Cup games from 1991 perhaps.