The All-Purpose (Lovefest Inducing) Mesut Oezil Thread

Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by mymy33, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. 4x4s

    4x4s Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Deco also fouled, a lot, and was a very pestering and annoying player to play against, due to his nature. Barca had Ronaldinho covering much of the distribution back then, so Deco's game was tidy and central, which is what Manchester United would've liked to have developed Anderson into.

    Özil is a different player altogether, Deco was more of a player like Lampard and Ballack, Özil is more like Van der Vaart and Sneijder (who both can't mark a training cone without throwing it over in terms of man marking skill), amongst others.

    A shame he doesn't know what to do with it when he's where he has to be. :D ;)
     
  2. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Deco didn't start out like a tidy CM, iirc he was a tre-quartista initially. Mourinho shaped his game and as a consequence improved him as a player.

    And yes, he fouled but I would prefer an AM who fouls but gets a high ball recovery rate to one who just wanders around the field, waiting to start a play once someone else wins the ball.

    Ozil Is a fantastic young player, but if Jose asks him to stick tight to a DM for an occasional match because we need to eliminate a threat or we need to allow others a freer role, then that's fine by me. Occasionally that will lead to errors, like in the Clasico when he probably was assigned to shadow Xavi around. But overall I think he'll benefit from adding defence to his already burgeoning attacking capabilities.
     
  3. toslat

    toslat New Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Deco did start out as an AM/trequartista when he was at Porto (e.g. UEFA cup season) and developed to play a deeper role at Farca. Deco did not start out like a lampard or Ballack, but later became similar to them, as did sneijder at Inter. VdV is still closer to being a CF than a MF and Ozil is more like Diego being a trequartista.

    The likes of lampard et al exhibit the skills needed to play the advanced position in a midfield trio. Ozil is not like them but would need to become more like them to be successful in that position. The alternative is to find some one else to play the position and push Ozil into a more attack minded position.

    IIRC, earlier in the season, Mou made a comment about hoping Ozil's experence with the Germany NT would allow him to play further back, to which some posters accused Mou of mistaking Ozil for a DM. The truth is that the position in the trio is more similar to a CM role than a trequartista. Ozil's shortcoming was quite evident in our earlier game against Farca when we were clearly outnumbered in the midfield and Xavi had too much time on the ball. A better defensive showing by Ozil would have made him less comfortable.
     
  4. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    As mentioned, Oezil covers quite a lot of field. For Bremen and Germany over the past year he's always top three in covering the most distances. He is physically weaker so when he does challenge he usually doesn't win them but the effort is there.

    He is just better utilized in an advanced position. Madrid's issue is sorting our their defense and midfield and the majority of the midfielder cover should come from their wide players like Di Maria and Ronaldo.

    Because of his intelligence, he could be deployed deeper and it would benefit the side's versatility and interchangeability but he would have to gain a bit more muscle and gain the know-how to operate like a Xavi or Scholes.

    When he does reach that point where his finishing becomes clinical, he should be played advanced at all times.
     
  5. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    ^^ The problem with cover from the wider players is that Ronaldo is too good to be covering for Ozil on a regular basis. Ozil is a fantastic player, but I doubt Jose will prioritise him over Ronaldo for extended periods. Di Maria does more working back to try and compensate for the lack of cover.

    Ozil with the NT imo moves like Raul used to at his peak. Always moving, trying to be available for the simple pass from the defence/midfield as often as possible, starting deep but often advancing beyond the main forward. Smart player, that one.
     
  6. toslat

    toslat New Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Covering distance, has less to do with the relavance of the distance. Wont be surprised to be see that CR also covers a lot of distance, but they are rarely in pursuit of defensive duties. A comparison of tackles and balls won between Ozil and Di Maria shows the difference in their defensive contributions.

    In a 4-2-3-1, the deepest of the 'AM' trio should be the one in the middle and not the two on the flanks. That is why there is little difference with 4-3-3

    what SirManchester is suggesting is more a 4-4-1-1 (which is not realistic with CR)
    -------Khedira----Xabi-----------
    --Di Maria---------------CR-------
    --------------Ozil------------------
    -------------- Ade----------------

    what it should be for a 4-2-3-1/4-3-3
    -------Khedira----Xabi-----------
    --------------Ozil------------------
    --Di Maria---------------CR-------
    -------------- Ade----------------

    what we have most times
    -------Khedira----Xabi-----------
    -Di Maria-------------------------
    ------------Ozil------------CR-----
    -------------- Ade----------------
     
  7. Soy Tristán

    Soy Tristán New Member

    Jul 21, 2010
    Ronaldo covering for Özil doesnt make sense however you twist it. Özil's defensive work is fantastic, in fact he is impressively hard working for such a tiny lad. Ronaldo on the other hand is the laziest player with the worst work rate I seen playing for us. Nobody's too good for this club, this way of thinking turned us into what we are today. We were never known for the best football despite our unmatched trophy cabinet, but spirit, sacrifice, work rate and winning mentality, this is what Real Madrid is all about.
     
  8. deleted

    deleted Member

    Aug 18, 2006
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    ???
     
  9. Akramzizou

    Akramzizou Member+

    Feb 13, 2006
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Bro, we defined beautiful football.
     
  10. Soy Tristán

    Soy Tristán New Member

    Jul 21, 2010
    'Not always' would have been the most accurate expression. We never needed to play well to win home and abroad.

    We lost our identity in the last decade. We are gutless, flashy, overpaid and overrated. In the 80s the Italians used to call Bernabéu 'la bolgia infernale'(infernal pit), now we are light years away of what this club represents. Statements like the above 'Ronaldo is too good to cover' show what is wrong with this club, we traded our values for glamour.
     
  11. Ozilll

    Ozilll Member

    Mar 12, 2011
    Hi ,i don't see di maria winning more balls then ozil in games, but i do see him waisting a lot of oppurtinity coz he's a 'wanna be robben'.How many times i saw him shooting from impossible angles, i think he only scored once from that 'robben angle' , most of his shots are a total waiste.

    Overall i can't agree di maria is more defensive player then ozil,especially coz i don't think losing or waisting the ball is not so much of a contibution to defence.
     
  12. Soy Tristán

    Soy Tristán New Member

    Jul 21, 2010
    Di María recovered more balls and created more chances than Özil. Why cant you appreciate them both?
     
  13. El-CapitanoR7

    El-CapitanoR7 Member

    Oct 30, 2008
    La la land
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Nah.:p Raul was and is miles ahead of Ozil moving without the ball. I am not talking about his speed, but his sense of the field and how to help / trick the players on the field is second to none. Nobody's as good as him with helping his team (only talking about off-the-ball movement).
     
  14. -Fifth CharM-

    -Fifth CharM- BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2007
    What are you on about? What he said was "Ronaldo is too good to be covering for Ozil" and not "Ronaldo is too good to cover, period."
     
  15. Ozilll

    Ozilll Member

    Mar 12, 2011
    i do appreciate both,i just don't agree that di maria creates more chances and is more usefull then Ozill..but this is my personal opinion


    i hate it when him or cr7 waistes a good opportunity by shooting from any distance and angle,or when di maria plunges in a sea of defenders or when ronaldo does 100 steps over at the end to lose the flow

    i think ozil is much more smart with the ball,since 20 years i seen players like di maria but not many like ozil..he's technique is unique and beautifull to watch...he's maturity for his age is unmatched


    and no i don't have a hardon right now :)
     
  16. Alma Merengue

    Alma Merengue Member+

    May 5, 2005
    Squidward123, the man is right. Historically Real Madrid has not been about beautiful football. I know a lot of people assume that and a lot of people on this board post comments related to that... but that is not a totally accurate description of our history.


    EDIT: Let's keep this Ozil related. We can discuss club history elsewhere.
     
  17. Soy Tristán

    Soy Tristán New Member

    Jul 21, 2010
    Why dont you explain what does "Ronaldo is too good to cover for Özil" mean because to me it doesnt make any sense.
     
  18. Soy Tristán

    Soy Tristán New Member

    Jul 21, 2010
    Fair enough man but Im sure the stat lads can prove you wrong about Özil being more creative than AdM. You might be right though. But we can agree that Özil is Real Madrid's best player Im sure, no? ;)
     
  19. Ozilll

    Ozilll Member

    Mar 12, 2011
    i think he meant that when cr7 is there every ball has to converge to him and he has to take all the chances..meaning shooting from impossible distances and angles instead of giving it to ozil or benzema or someone in better position


    to be honest last 2 games without ronaldo i saw more team play,i was never doubtfull of the victory
     
  20. Ozilll

    Ozilll Member

    Mar 12, 2011

    is he ? :)


    well i checked the stats last week correct me if i'm wrong but ozill created a lot more scoring chances then adm

    also let's compare teh shooting stats

    can we agree at least on the base that ozil is less selfish,more mature and smarter? :)
     
  21. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    In the offensive phase of play, Ronaldo is usually free to come infield from the left flank and other players move accordingly. So when he moves into a central area, you will often see either Benzema or Ozil moving across to the left flank if Marcelo hasn't arrived, to give Ronaldo the opportunity to shoot from a central position.

    I would prefer Ronaldo to have that level of attacking freedom even if it means giving Ozil a more restricted role. The only reason is that Ronaldo is a far greater offensive threat than Ozil, so it is better for the team. That's what I meant by "too good". That doesn't mean I don't think he should do any tracking at all - clearly he should do more at times. And if Ozil proves himself a greater offensive weapon than Ronaldo, then they should adjust the tactics accordingly.
     
  22. Soy Tristán

    Soy Tristán New Member

    Jul 21, 2010


    AdM's been more effective in defence and attack according to the official site. Not much separates them mind.

    http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/1193041476158/1330008104630/jugador/Jugador/Di_Maria.htm


    http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/1193041476158/1330012508587/jugador/Jugador/Ozil.htm

    We are set up to play for Ronaldo which not only takes away from Ozil's game but everyone else's. While I agree that Ronaldo is our best attacking player and should be given all the freedom on earth, Ronaldo has to work hard like every player. To keep him fit he will rotate like the rest but for that we have to have a coach with cojones to do it.
     
  23. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well the thing is Ronaldo is an anomaly. He's a beast of a player who can make things happen by himself. Oezil on the other hand is a player more important to a given team because he brings everyone into the game, including Ronaldo. The latter has benefited a lot due to Oezil which is why tactically this side is very much built around Oezil and why there is less flexibility when he's not on the pitch at times.

    Normally a 4-2-3-1 relies on its fullbacks to provide the width, meaning the wingers play more narrow and are also responsible for doing a lot of defensive work when the fullbacks overlap. It's always difficult for a coach how to include Ronaldo and get the best out of him.

    At United Ferguson very much built it around him, gave him free reign and even relegated Rooney to the flanks to allow him to play in the center. This worked of course because United didn't have an Oezil type. However I do think Ronaldo could do very well as a false nine if Madrid had an adequate replacement for him on the left.

    Mourinho could play this for instance

    ---------Ronaldo
    Oezil------Kaka-----Di Maria

    But Oezil should really have that central role..
     
  24. Ozilll

    Ozilll Member

    Mar 12, 2011
    the thing is that ronaldos magic don't always work, how many times messi saved the game compared to ronaldo, they have same amount of goals but it would be interesting to know how many of these goals won the match for their teams


    cr7 is much less team player then he used to be at manu,i can't recall how many times i throwed somethings towards the tv while he was dancing over the ball
     
  25. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    LOL, I feel your pain :D
     

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