The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did I say I thought Leicester were relegation certanties? No, I did not. I responded specifically to your claims about Sheffield. The fact that you can't get this point through your head (or refuse to) is approaching troll levels.
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bournemouth and Brighton will be relegated. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and possibly for the rest of our lives.

    Palace have joined Leicester and Everton in that second tier of spenders, though that didn't do QPR any good.
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zut alors! Le "MLS Superdraft" est mort!

    There still will be a draft, there's just not enough talent to make a big deal of it any more.
     
  4. So Zlatan de facto calls the mls a low level league not worthy to watch when he's gone by telling mls fans to watch baseball now he's not there to be watched anymore.
    Gee, why didnot that linked article asked a high profile star from Sweden his opinion but did so with a nobody from Sweden?
     
  5. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    So is your point that we should pay more attention to the too often ignored Zlatan?
    I admit I watched his highlights every week. They were fun. But the league, with or without him, is getting better every year.
    A serious question: as MLS is just about at 32 first division clubs, most with academies and many with second sides, and USL is also improving and boast s about 20 decent independent clubs (iirc, couldn’t be bothered to check), meaning something like 50 solid, professional clubs plus a bunch of second clubs and a new but really promising developmental system, what again is the advantage of pro/rel in the US? Or have I failed to realize that this is now a thread about just how great a failed Reading manager is today?
     
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  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    The fact that the second and third divisions have a really difficult time being sustainable under the status quo?
    I mean, it's great for MLS.
     
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's certainly no need to gamble on promotion in USL.
    upload_2019-11-17_13-57-24.png
    £1 = $1.29.

    upload_2019-11-17_14-6-43.png
    €1 = $1.11

    upload_2019-11-17_14-18-39.png
     
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  8. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The USL seems to be doing just fine whiten the status quo. Sure some clubs have folded but certainly not at the rate seen in the 90's/00's. Hell they've even added a third division to the league so I don't think things are all that bad.
     
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  9. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Well really! EVERYBODY has been relegated at some point, Arsenal I believe are the only club that have avoided the drop since the second world war!! I believe that relegation certainties Bournemouth are starting their 4th or 5th season in the Premier League no? They might just be there in another 10 no? If Palace have 'joined' that 'second tier' you talk about then why not Wolves? Did relegation certainties Wolves not qualify for European football last season? So many instances that prove promoted clubs are NOT simply relegation fodder!! And all recent examples too! Every season that passes just keeps on proving it! Time to stop using it as an excuse not to implement pro/rel I think!! :-D.
     
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  10. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Really? Exactly how does the existence of pro/rel help teams that are not promoted? Is it that they can over-invest with dreams of making it to the land of milk and honey that is MLS, where all will be well? Teams that are not viable, do not attract support, without pro/rel cannot be magically cured by a new system. Beyond that, the current system relies on quite a few MLS second squads.
    With 32 clubs planned, The current MLS structure equals a two division pro/rel setup, doesn’t it? If a third division is made up of about half MLS second clubs, which it is, how does your third division work?
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You keep mentioning relegation certainties. Nothing is certain in a single season. But everyone but Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Man City, Man United, Arsenal and maybe Leicester and Everton, started this season with the objective of getting enough points to avoid relegation. Anything else is a bonus.
     
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  12. miladmaz12

    miladmaz12 Member

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #24662 miladmaz12, Nov 17, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
    That's part of the impediment of a closed system here. 2 teams folding in USL and 1 team in NISA (possibly more) due to the lack of support, infrastructure, finances, media coverage, marketing, etc)

    Fact is we don't have a stable enough pyramid yet granted for a promotion/relegation system. You just admitted that. Even if pro/rel was implemented this season it would cause more chaos and teams folding in a already immature American soccer structure.
     
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  13. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007
    I think it could also be interpreted that soccer is a second tier sport here. For example, last Sunday the largest sporting crowd at Century Link Field witnessed the Sounders win the championship. It was a great day. The next day, it wasn't even the top sports story in the city. Bigger stories included but were not limited to- how would the Seahawks o-line handle the 49ers d-line, how can the Hawks incorporate Josh Gordon into the offense, can the Hawks stop Jimmy Garrapolo. By Tuesday the championship is so far on the local backburner of sports as the Seahawks won in exciting fashion and took control of the NFC West. The Seahawks winning the Super Bowl was the main topic for a month at least.

    The issue teams face here in a pro/relatively set up is relegation has the potential of being forgotten. A championship lasts barely 48 hours. A relegated team could be done for. There are many things competing for sports attention here.
     
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  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, really, are you going to address your incorrect comments about my post or just ignore them and move on troll-like?
     
  15. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Note that the story of the Sounders winning the championship in front of a record crowd was eclipsed the very next day, in their own city, by a regular-season game for the local NFL team. As far as visibility goes... the amount of media attention MLS gets compared to the NFL is like League Two compared to the Premier League.
     
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  16. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't get too upset about that. It seems par for the course. The NFL is the 800-pound gorilla. I think that here in Philadelphia, the Eagles get more ink than the Union, Phillies, Sixers and Flyers combined.
     
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  17. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    In fact, I didn't. The closed system causes the instability due to the fact that teams are starting at an artificial level without having built the following to sustain it. It's exacerbated by the limited sponsorship opportunities due to being sequestered in a minor league.
     
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  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    This is possibly the worst argument: "teams are folding at lower rate now that soccer is more popular than ever than when it was when it was not even part of the American consciousness".

    Well clearly that's indicates a fully functional system!
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its also probably the only team in Seattle could have done that, and it took an "Instant Classic" level of game to do it. Maybe the Huskies putting up 70 against Oregon again could do it, but nothing else in Seattle sports.

    Well, the Sonics returning would do it.
     
  20. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So when teams fold in Italy, England and everywhere else in the world that has pro/rel do we just say "Welp that was a poorly run team"? In the United States what I mentioned is progress belive it or not.
     
  21. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So explain how Chattanooga, Detroit, New Mexico, Louisville, Sacramento and a whole host of lower division clubs have been doing well for themselves? Also soccer here has NO HISTORY its being built up as we live and breath.
     
  22. miladmaz12

    miladmaz12 Member

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dude, you literally said "the fact that the second and third divisions have a really difficult time being sustainable under the status quo"

    How the heck would it be better if it had your way of English-model open system thinking? Assuming its in the best interest of the entire American soccer ecosystem?

    EVERY soccer system around the world starts with a closed system, look at how Japan's soccer structure. J League started in the early 90s with 10 teams, then pro/rel in the mid 2000s and now with J leagues in 3 divisions.

    In English football, The Football League had a closed pro/rel system until the late '80s. Italy had a similar approach.

    We don't have 100+ year old clubs and leagues. We didn't have a robust structure until like 2010.
     
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  23. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Huh, so about the same lifespan as MLS and USL. What were you saying about closed leagues again?
     
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  24. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Building their own future outside of the closed system
    One year old
    Definitely a success story
    Have been mentioned as an MLS expansion candidate since their first season.

    Shall we talk about Fresno, or Harrisburg, or Rochester, or Lansing?
     
  25. miladmaz12

    miladmaz12 Member

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, my friend you didn't mention the problems MLS and USL had since their founding in American soccer history or that MLS and USL are two completely different soccer organizations.
     

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