The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Why should the owner be rich rather than the company be well run and growing? The only reason a business should require a rich owner is if they are spending more than they can reasonably hope to make, which shouldn't be the model we think is normal.
     
  2. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    What's harsh?
     
  3. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Where do you get this? Dorking FC was evicted because of health and safety violations. The council upgraded the ground.

    "Councillor Charles Yarwood, deputy leader and cabinet member for strategy and assets at Mole Valley District Council, which funded the bulk of the project along with Sport England, said that the new location would also benefit the wider community."
    https://www.thenonleaguefootballpap...e-into-new-home-meadowbank-is-just-the-start/
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "However mid-way through the 2015/16 season, Dorking FC were notified that their ground Meadowbank would not be ready until 2017/18 , due to delays in construction, which has put the club in a financial crisis with the club needing to fund at least £30,000 to ensure another ground-sharing. This cost has propelled the club into the possibility of folding due to this financial crisis now embedded on the club. However after 4 months of uncertainty the club raised the funds and escaped administration & extinction with many supporters providing loans to the club....

    ...In February 2017, the club announced its closure."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorking_F.C.?wprov=sfla1
     
  5. All you can talk is about money, money....Nothing about the passion of the game....money, money, money. What you seriously lack is this, exhibited at an amateur derby, considered by people going all around the globe to watch soccer matches as the greatest derby on earth. Nobody is going to promote a fake competition match as a must see event. But hey, ......you wouldnot touch this match with a ten yard stick, it's amateur...where's the money ....
    https://europeanfootballweekends.wordpress.com/2010/page/3/
    The Spakenburg Derby
    Posted in Derby of derbies, Football in the Netherlands, IJsselmeervogels, SV Spakenburg, The Spakenburg Derby on November 8, 2010| 5 Comments »

    [​IMG]
    Take That and Party
    SV Spakenburg 2-3 IJsselmeervogels (06:11:10)

    The Spakenburg derby, derby of derbies, where have you been all my life? You can now lay claim to being the greatest match on earth, and the reason European Football Weekends were invented. Ticketmaster went into meltdown in the Netherlands last week, and not just because Take That were playing at the local EnormoDome. Everybody wanted to lay their mitts on a ticket for the 33rd village derby between the blues of SV Spakenburg, and the reds of IJsselmeervogels.

    This was the first time the match had taken place in the newly formed Topklasse Division, the third tier of Dutch football. Previously, these two had been the most successful amateur clubs in the country. IJsselmeervogels Chairman Arian van de Vuurst had been a dissenting voice amongst those who wanted change, “professional football does not fit in with our culture” he harrumphed before the start of the season.
    Traditionally, these two clubs have always tried to outdo each other on and off the pitch. When one team builds a new stand, the other will build one slightly bigger. Last season the reds let loose a pig on the pitch as a little dig at their rivals who they consider to be farmers. They themselves are proud to be known as the fishermen of the village. The blues responded by flying a light aircraft over the ground which dispensed inflatable toilet brushes onto the reds terrace. SV Spakenburg also unveiled their new mascot at the derby last year, a giant viking standing over 20 feet tall, brilliant.
    [​IMG]
    Getting the horn at football – tick.
    [​IMG]
    The Pope delivers his pre-match speech sermon.

    etc.
    Those who love good football stories..read the article, those that only care about money, money....Never is there enough of it in the mls to make a product like this.
     
  6. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    You literally never read anything I write fully. I’m not re-explaining my post to you but once again you’ve proven that you’re not actually absorbing anything anyone that you disagree with posts. There are a handful of y’all who consistently do that.
     
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  7. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This ignores the history of pro soccer clubs in the US folding after one season, or even folding midseason. The USSF standards don't require that the rich owner (the one with a certain minimum net worth) be a majority owner -- but the rich owner must have the authority to sign binding contracts and be held liable for debts. The other financial requirement is a performance bond, which guarantees that in the event of bankruptcy the club can at least finish out the season.

    In the US, we have both higher costs for any given level of play, and lower revenues. No amount of good management changes that reality. The next city is not going to get any closer.
     
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  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Americans have been playing organized soccer since 1862 (some would argue earlier). The rules here were first codified in 1866. By 1995 the league table looked like this.
    upload_2019-10-12_19-36-10.png

    What don't you understand about the importance of money in US sport?
     
  9. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or maybe Americans don't watch this kind of thing because, well, it's a sport that most Americans don't watch.

    Also: in order to have a rivalry you have to have two teams first. And the teams have to have enough money to pay for transportation, otherwise, they'll never play each other. We're not talking about making big bucks, we're talking about being able to pay the bus driver.
     
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  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is how American media markets will served by first and second division pro soccer in 2022.
    upload_2019-10-12_19-39-33.png
     
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  11. There must be amateur teams in one city that are rivals of each other in the States too.
    upload_2019-10-13_1-46-35.png
    Spakenburg, around 25,000 people, two bitter rivals a stone throw apart, a cult derby.

    If one only talks about money, you only want one club in a city. If you're talking about football as a passion you can have more on an amateur base or maybe even low profile pro clubs.
     
  12. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Do we really need to explain this to you again? Amateur soccer teams have zero following here outside of a few college teams. Amateur (high school and college) sports are a big deal here but not in soccer. Soccer isn’t that popular here but it’s growing.

    We have three pro clubs in Salt Lake alone (USL, MLS, NWSL). LA, NY both have two MLS teams and that’s not counting the USL teams and NWSL teams in those towns. Miami will have three pro men’s teams in the near future. Seattle, Portland, Houston all have multiple teams.
     
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  13. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    So they let their stadium get condemned, the council renovated it and I'm supposed to feel sorry for them that they ran out of money renting another ground while the stadium they were responsible for getting condemned was being renovated on the public dime?
     
  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    This ignores the fact that the history of pro soccer clubs in the U.S. is full of people buying franchise rights to their city and having a limited runway, not building up gradually over 15 years.
     
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  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The vast majority of soccer teams in the US are and have been community based.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Cosmopolitan Soccer League in New York just wrapped up it's 96th season.

    It's open league has four divisions with promotion and relegation and a September-June season.

    I'm sure many of those teams play in close proximity and several probably share the same pitch.

    As you can see they've really engaged the community.



    The fans did all that?
     
  17. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Pro teams?
     
  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    The fans did all what?
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At some point you just have to accept he's willfully choosing not to understand it and ignore him.
     
  20. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Cosmopolitan Soccer League of New York that Paul refers to, which was founded in 1923 as the German-American Soccer League, wasn't the only early amateur league in a major American city. Others included the National Soccer League of Chicago, founded in 1920, the Greater Los Angeles Soccer League, founded in 1902, the Philadelphia Cricket Clubs League, founded in 1902, and the National Association Foot Ball League of Northern New Jersey, founded in 1895.

    The first amateur leagues in the United States were the Western Football Association of St. Louis, founded in 1883, and the Bristol County League of Fall River, Mass., founded in 1884.

    On a different sort of amateur level, the first high school soccer league in the United States was the Public Schools Athletic League of New York City, which began playing soccer in 1907 (the first soccer game between two public high schools was in 1875 in San Francisco).

    Intercollegiate soccer in the United States has been around since 1869.

    Soccer in the United States didn't spring to life in recent decades with one pro team to a city. Amateur soccer, with multiple teams in the same city, has been growing and developing gradually in the United States for well over 100 years.
     
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  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #23971 Elninho, Oct 13, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    In more popular sports, but not in soccer.

    In this thread, we've already had people mention US towns much bigger than 25,000 where the local youth club has to combine age groups just to put a full team on the field. Outside of a few regions where soccer is relatively popular, there may not be enough players for one amateur team in a town of 25,000, let alone two.

    Only 7% of Americans prefer to watch soccer. You need a quarter of a million people in the US to have as much soccer support as a Dutch town of 25,000. Of course, two teams don't make a league, so now both of the hypothetical teams in a city of 250,000 have to travel to other cities.

    Large cities like NY and LA can have big amateur leagues, but they were never able to connect into a larger league system because of travel costs.
     
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Finance > romance.

    Sorry, we're trying to get this through to you: our perception of the sport (many sports, really) is different over here. And the reality is that money plays a huge role in all our sports - it's bigger than "passion."

    You guys are into public transportation and being polite and amateur "derbies" and we're assholes who drive to work by ourselves, shoot each to death on a regular basis and don't give two shits about amateur soccer. That's just how it is.

    Money. ********ing. Matters. Here. Get it through your head.
     
  23. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus, sometimes I wonder what exoplanet you live on. This is not an ABC Afterschool Special.

    We're requiring rich owners because - quiet as it's kept - until recently, we had a bit of a problem with teams going belly up, to the tune of about 70 percent, mostly because they were undercapitalized, until we...wait for it...started requiring rich people to be involved with the teams.
     
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  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You talk about clubs like they're sentient beings. The people in charge during Dorking FCs demise had nothing to do with the former owners whom you suggest had let the stadium become condemned.

    And of course the beneficiary of their demise is playing in a stadium built for someone else on the public dime.

    All I'm suggesting is that there are two sides to every story.
     
  25. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    The vast majority of professional soccer teams in the US are not community based.

    Unless you count the community of other major league sports owners and assorted biillionaires (MLS) or or assorted millionaires (USL).

    The community based teams are mainly youth with no senior teams to develop towards.
     
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