He's being stupid on his demands and he won't get his way CONCACAF has last say which would be no. Also...the logistic nightmare...just imagine Definately not.
MLS and LigaMX have already pretty much undercut any of the CCL leverage or anything that CONCACAF was hoping for, by playing nice with each other. The blooming partnership is rendering CCL moot.
I don't think Mexicans would like moniker "North American" (I see what you did there) as they use the term "Norteamericanos" to mean US and Canadian. The simple way would be a 16-20 team super league, with 8-10 Mexican teams and 8-10 MLS teams in the top-flight and 3 regional second divisions, one in Mexico and two in the US and Canada. The second divisions would retain their national D1 status. Two breaks, one in December/January and the other in August, with being arranged geographically to minimize extreme weather. This is all hypothetical.
I'd like to believe that but...SUM has the marketing rights for CONCACAF, also wrapping up in 2021. I can imagine all those dogs wanting to eat from the revenue generated by El Tri in US games, the USWNT, WC qualifying, and the 2026 mens WC, etc. XX million a year guaranteed buys a lot of "sanctioning", I can't imagine CONCACAF is less corrupt than USSF...
If MLS and Liga MX merges, Liga MX will drop pro/rel. Both leagues will operate independently like the AL and NL used to with very limited crossover games. The MLS and Liga MX champions will play in a championship game. Leagues and Campiones Cups will become the new CCL and a secondary international tournament like the Europa League.
It's not just about CONCACAF but FIFA itself which is against such leagues. Even if CONCACAF could be "convinced" to go ahead with the plan (which they won't) FIFA would say no. Creating a precedent to the FIFA rule against cross-border leagues would give UEFA league the argument to launch their own super league, which UEFA and FIFA would never allow. FIFA isn't your typical sport entity. Unlike the US big 4, potential revenues by SUM/MEX/US is nothing compared to UEFA Champions League nor worth endangering this source of revenue. That's why it's highly unlikely this ever gets ratified unless UEFA does it first. They have way more leverage than the USSF or SUM or CONCACAF ever will.
Is this b/c Canada's boy Montagliano is head of Concacaf now? The FMF and USSF could easily get him replaced. You're right....A combined North American League has the potential to be worth MORE money annually than the UEFA Champions League. The UEFA Champions League is beholden to the BIG leagues, and more specifically the BIG and HUGE clubs of Europe. Just look at the recent revamp where the Big leagues were granted guaranteed spots in the group stage, rather than the 3rd/4th place teams having to battle it out in a playoff for entry. Hmmmm....wonder why/how that got passed??? Oh yeah, the big clubs keep threatening to break away and form a super league........ Not sure why you're so convinced that Concacaf and FIFA would say no. After all the FMF and USSF have folks in high ranking positions within FIFA and Concacaf. I'm not saying I agree with the tactics that are used here. Just pointing out that they should not be taken lightly nor ignored. Money always talks, and BullSh!t always walks. It's how there's a World Cup being played in November/December in QATAR!!!! That reason is MONEY! They've essentially gotten rid of it already. The second division in Mexico only has a handful of clubs that can meet the standards of clubs in Liga MX currently, and those are the only teams currently eligible for promotion should they earn it.
Yes, there has not been a relegation since the new standards were implemented. In 2018, Tapachula won the promotion spot but was not certified for promotion and the team facing relegation, Lobos BUAP, was able to pay a fee to avoid relegation. In 2019 Atlético San Luis won promotion and was allowed to move up, but the relegated Veracruz paid a fee and was allowed to stay up as part of a plan to expand to 20 teams. Also Lobos BUAP was purchased, relocated, and rebranded by FC Juárez.
How? Caribbean nations holds the majority of votes...the same block that was willing to vote for Morocco over a solo US bid. You're sure they'd prefer a US/MEX nominee who would only care about the US over Montagliani who did a lot for Caribbean nations? And yet they still didn't get the super league. It's better to revamp the tournament (like CONCACAF did for MLS) than all out war... which in the end, they would end up losing. FIFA Statute Article 73 They aren't going to give UEFA leagues a precedent over a CONCACAF Super league that could bring in a fraction of the Champions League just because its "USA" The day CONCACAF Champions League brings in more money, they might listen a little harder. Our Confederation is pretty much a joke and needs to be build up before pretending that FIFA would do whatever we pitch. We aren't even CONMEBOL lol
FIFA didn't block SuperLiga, the Leagues Cup, or the Campeones Cup. So the relevant parties could just develop a more in depth, weekly version of all this stuff and announce it as the next step in an existing competitive partnership.
What exactly has he done for Caribbean nations? Yet they did get what they wanted in the end......more guaranteed spots in the group stage, and more money......the next domino to fall will be MORE guaranteed spots in the Europa League for the big European Leagues, and a third Euro competition for all of the smaller leagues of Europe. At some point they will get a some sort of Super League...whether that is a competition similar to the current CL format, or another competition played prior to the season starting, or just after the close in a world cup style format, who knows? That would likely be played in Asia or North America, as they would clean up financially. The Euro clubs would much rather have that, then have to participate in an expanded FIFA Club World Cup. It's not just about the USA.......Mexico wants to grow their fanbase, and the stature of LigaMX. Like it or not, LigaMX is the most popular league in North America, and by far the most popular in the USA. Any way that there can be more meaningful games between Canadaien and American Club teams and teams from LigaMX.....is only going to help grow the game in North America. If you want to blindly ignore this, or just hide behind "Concacaf won't allow it" then that's your prerogative. LigaMX and MLS already recognize this (especially LigaMX). They are taking steps on their own to make these matchups happen more frequently. Oh, is Garber being stupid or are you just showing your bias against MLS? (Before you go off on your "the MLS clubs haven't done enough for the CMNT stick" again, take a hard look at the CMNT roster ......it's chock full of MLS academy products.) He's not wrong in that to grow the game and player development in Canada a working relationship and partnership between the CSA, CPL, USSF, and MLS would serve the game well in Canada. The more opportunities players have, the better. Providing more professional development environments for players, only helps the game. The fact that the CSA and CPL want to ignore and outright block the three MLS teams development pathways is not a good look. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. There are ways for CPL and the three MLS teams to be partners. I agree that 2 teams and reserve teams are likely not the answer. That said, having the three MLS teams invest in CPL teams would be a good thing. They could use the CPL model. Perhaps partner with the local CPL team on youth development (Academy partnerships perhaps). Turning a blind eye to the MLS teams, or straight up ignoring/shunning them is not helping anyone. It certainly isn't going to help the youth players in the academies of those teams.
I'm not talking about Cups or tournaments, but merging championships / domestic leagues. That's not the same thing in regards to FIFA Statute 73
I think the argument here is that you maintain a merged "league" of the top teams from MLS and LigaMX by operating it as a competition. Not sure if the trying to follow the letter of the law while violating it's spirit like that (if I'm guessing right) would work or not.
Nations League is a big initiative to give more meaningful games to that block, the (7-35th) tournament for the 2022 World Cup had them in mind as well. It's night and day to how the confederation used to run things We're saying the same thing here. It's more likely that they successfully get more spots to CCL than a "Merged Super League"-->Replacing both Liga MX & MLS. The creation of CONCACAF League facilitate that to some extend which could also include extra clubs from the USA and Mexico UEFA are already giving them huge advantages with the next revamp of the Champions League. Seems like we are merging "tournaments" and "domestic leagues". There are precedents at allowing tournaments and "league Cup" but confederations wouldn't let that happen at the expense of their Champions League or if it means the dissolution of existing domestic league to create a Super League". The league cup is a good initiative to achieve that. You do realize that people were talking merging Liga MX and MLS. That's what FIFA won't allow but Champions league and the current league cup (MX/MLS) already does that. It's not about "how many" but "how" and at "what price". I'm not bias against MLS which I found does a great job in terms of development. However, the 3 Canadian clubs have done a mediocre job at it over the years. Results speak for itself. Last squad that was called up in Nations League vs. Cuba MLS academies - 6 (Carducci, Pantemis, Adekugbe, Cornelius, Henry, Fraser) None-MLS academies (Canada) &/or Overseas - 17 It's not that he's wrong. The problem is he wants it done "his" way. That's what's wrong and prior to CPL, it pretty much was. You will really need to enlighten me about that. Refusing reserve teams into a Tier 1 league and refusing a right of first refusal isn`t blocking MLS. It's saying "No" to unreasonable demands. I agree, Cincinnati and TFC has loaned players to CPL. 100% agree. CPL wants to launch a D2 league by 2026 and has not only acquired Ontario D3 but plans to buy Quebec D3 and launch BC D3 by 2021. The MLS team's youth club and /or reserve teams are most welcome. Vancouver are impatiently waiting for BCL1. This is where both league and MLS teams can work together. I'm not sure how's that possible. CPL is partnering with local/existing academies & USports instead of launching their own. The 3 teams spent years & money "colonizing" Canada with their academies and competing with those that were already there. What I'm getting at, those 3 were never truly interested in collaboration. You're misinformed. CPL aren't turning a blind eye or ignoring them. It's just that those 2 points mentioned earlier are non-starter. What else would there be to talk about? There's nothing wrong from CPL to say that they will deal with MLS the same way they deal with every other leagues. Garber criticism towards the CSA in regards to sanctioning, "Ottawa situation" and not allowing USL reserve teams for Montreal and Vancouver, is simply not his place. The CSA will do what's best for Canadian soccer as a whole, not just to benefit 3 clubs. Threatening to "withdraw" investments in Canada? That was a stupid comment to make
It's a good idea if the intent is to grow the fanbase for Liga MX and the competition level for MLS. It would still be a tournament / playoffs at best and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that as long as it doesn't happened when there's CCL going on...CONCACAF would take issue with that.
"73 Authorisation Associations, leagues or clubs that are affiliated to a member association may only join another member association or take part in competitions on that member association’s territory under exceptional circumstances. In each case, authorisation must be given by both member associations, the respective confederation(s) and by FIFA." That seems pretty vague to me. Especially the use of "competitions" instead of specifying domestic league play. Under those parameters something like the Leagues Cup would've required the above authorization. Is it not a competition on U.S. territory in which Mexican clubs take part? If they want to say domestic leagues from two or more countries shall never merge they should just say that. Which would be an incredibly stupid rule in the first place. Why cite soccer as a global passion that can unite nations if nationalistic segregation of leagues is mandatory?
Well, a larger domestic audience. He was making a rhetorical point; one would have to concede that "potential" is doing a LOT of work.
?? Europe double the number of inhabitants when we talk about domestic audience, but also important the CL isnot solely based on domestic, but also on global attraction, including the USA. Could be you're extrapolating Big 4 sports earnings towards such a league, but those 4 donot have to compete with an established, superior foreign entity, being the UEFA.
There's more than just the USA in North America.........a NORTH AMERICAN league compromised of teams from the USA, Canada and Mexico........it's the same reason that FIFA was so eager to bring the world cup back to North America.......If you can't see the POTENTIAL of a more, or at the very least a very lucrative competition, no one here can help you. Here's the thing....Garber is the spokesperson for the owners and investors of the MLS clubs......he's speaking for them, not himself. It's not what Garber wants, it's what his bosses want. The three Canadien MLS teams are sitting there saying, "we've invested and continue to spend millions of dollars per year on youth development, and now we don't have an avenue to get these young players meaningful game minutes." Yes, TFC2, VWFC2 and FCM were and are awful on the field from a competitive standpoint. That said, the Montreal players benefitted from their time. Look at Tabla, who parlayed his play into appearances in MLS, and then into a move abroad. The three Canadien teams are going to have to make a decision, and are leaning towards spending much less on youth development because they no longer have control over their young players by not having the ability to field their own reserve teams. What exactly does this mean? And how many of those players play or did get their professional starts with MLS teams??? Convenient how you left Davies off of your list.
Good point, that's my bad Yes they do. TFC has L10, Montreal has PLSQ and Vancouver will have BCL1. Montreal and Vancouver "CHOOSE" to shutdown their reserve teams in USL claiming that it was losing them money. The CSA didn't make them do it. Now, MLS is arguing that the CSA should void its moratorium on sanctioning new clubs in USSF leagues. They won't, otherwise it opens Pandora's box and you'd have Ottawa resisting sanction decisions all the way to D3. That's false. They have D3 leagues to send reserve teams too, they want USL which I think wants to relegate reserve teams to USL-1. I do understand though... TFC II is in USL-1 so they want the same thing. What's more likely to happen is TFCII being told to join L10. You said "product of MLS academies". Davies was a product of Edmonton, not Whitecaps Academy There were leaks claiming that when CPL was in the process of getting sanctioned by the CSA, that was MLS ask. Players that would be produce and have foreign league interests would have to be shown to MLS first and foremost. There were other stuff such as "territorial rights" that CPL nor CSA recognized.
jaykoz3 said: ↑ You're right....A combined North American League has the potential to be worth MORE money annually than the UEFA Champions League. First: bigredfutbol talked about larger domestic audience. which I countered with the 740+ vs 308 million inhabitants. Unless there's a major fault in the population numbers I can't see Mexico plus Canada making up for the missing 430 million audience. Second: the mls according to wiki had a total revenue of 851 million €€ in 2017 xxxxxxxxEurope's total soccer revenues were 27,873.8 million €€ xxxxxxxxNFL 11,394 million So you're suggesting that the potential for the upgraded mls is to go beyond 2.1 billion €€ of 2017 CL. Mexico total revenue for 2017 was 509 million €€, Canada had ??? Total North American revenue, including soccermad Mexico is about 1,36 billion €€. I assume that in the Mexican numbers the revenues generated in the USA are included, so the possibilities to increase that is limited. So how are you going to increase with 800 million, which means doubling the mls revenues.
By the way, that number of the CL is just what the UEFA collects. The clubs (especially the top clubs) have CL related revenues apart from the UEFA. ManUnited has sponsordeals that explicitly has a kill paragraph that costs United about 100 million if they miss the CL groupstages twice. When one includes the revenues of the clubs (tickets etc.) the total revenues of the CL goes up very hard. If Ajax is a measure they received from the UEFA around 70 million and the total CL revenues was calculated at 100 million, so an extra of 30%.
I don't know what any of this has to do with pro/rel. But I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to say cartel again.