The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Seeing a number of Cincinnati supporters expressing a view that I've seen become more prevalent in England recently.

    They're basically lamenting the fact that they're being outclassed in MLS and expressing that they'd prefer to still be in USL.
     
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  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think some Minny fans did the same initially.
     
  3. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I noticed the latest Mexican pro/rel shenanigans because, just last weekend, Sacramento Republic announced a friendly against Lobos BUAP that was to be played in early July. Yesterday, the friendly was canceled without explanation only a few days after it was announced. It was only later in the evening that someone posted Spanish-language reports about the sale/swap to the TBB's Facebook group. At that time I was unable to find any reporting on it in English.
     
  4. owian

    owian Member+

    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Lobos put out a firm denial of this? Is it actually going through?

    Mexico obviously is not the model MLS should be looking at for pro/rel. If they had a system where teams could buy their way out of promotion I'd prefer we stick with a closed league with continued expansion.
     
  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My understanding is that there were rumors going around about it for at least a few weeks, and Lobos denied the rumors on May 19. Now there are multiple Spanish-language reports timestamped yesterday afternoon that say it's actually going through, which is a big of a shock.

    I tend to think it's actually happening, given the sudden cancellation of the Sacramento friendly.
     
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  6. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well........when you essentially bring a USL level team to play week in and week out in MLS.........and don't have a coherent plan for building the first team, let alone the youth academy, PRIOR to making the jump up a level....................well....not exactly sure they could have expected any better then how they are doing currently.

    USL fans/leaders consistently under estimate and downplay the increase in quality that MLS is currently at. There's a big gap between MLS and USL. There was a huge gap between MLS and NASL too, despite what the Cosmos and NASL fanboys wanted everyone to believe.
     
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  7. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    That’s a small number of idiots. The vast majority of FCC fans would take finishing last in MLS to winning games at Louisville and Memphis’ jokes of stadiums
     
  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's hard to forget the NASL fanboys claiming the NASL was better than MLS aside from DPs, including that hilarious bit about NASL referees being far better (when they were the exact same people).

    But I don't think all USL fans are that unrealistic. Among Sacramento fans, one frequent subject of discussion is: if we were promoted to MLS today, which players would we keep? Even the most wildly optimistic people I've spoken with over the past five years have named no more than six players. FC Cincinnati started the MLS season with 10 players who finished the 2018 USL season with them.

    And, to be fair, Minnesota improved dramatically when they benched the TAM center back with La Liga and Bundesliga experience, in favor of one of their NASL guys.
     
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  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rumors across related threads suggest Miami FC are fed up with wishy-washy NPSL owners and is actively engaged with NISA, while a number of ambitious NPSL clubs are considering a leap over to USL-2 (formerly PDL), where they will have the option of self-promoting.
     
  10. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    You're editorializing this a bit.
     
  11. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
     
  12. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So a couple of GK blunders makes MLS a bad league? Say what you will about the NASL but it had just as many blunders with the occasional reminders how Bush league they were. I mean I believe its the only US pro league to trade a player for room and board!

    https://www.si.com/soccer/planet-futbol/2014/01/08/nasl-walter-restrepo-san-antonio-fort-lauderdale

    But you know they were D2 in name only everything else screamed MLS comparable!
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A bit.

    But the USL re-org starts to make sense with USL L1 acting as a conduit between the amateur USL L2 and full-time professionalism in the Championship.

    On the one hand it seems like a safer path than NPSL to a non-existent D3, to a non-existent D2. On the other hand there's an expansion fee.
     
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  14. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe the keeper throwing the ball into his own net (in a friendly) was in the NASL.

    As for the own goal above, Oliver Kahn let in a similar one in the Champions League. This was in December 1997 against IFK Göteborg. It happens.
     
  15. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I don't disagree with your point, here. I just don't think there are that many NPSL teams that will actually wind up in L1. I'm not saying none, because I can think of a couple that very well might, but 8-12 is, frankly, not terribly credible.
    The Miami FC NISA thing is less about wishy-washiness, more about the fact that Miami and Cosmos honestly should be swimming in a deeper pool. I had hoped that they might show a little bit of restraint and patience before ratcheting up their spending, but it looks like that was naive of me. We'll see.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    We could go on.
     
  17. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Actually, you can't. One shows weekly keeper flubs in a 1st division. The responses have shown a one off howler in a UCL and a one off howler in a WC.

    I'm pretty confident if every matchday in this past UCL/UEL there were consistent keeper screwups like this it would be shown.

    Go over weekly game file of any other first division and you aren't seeing weekly flubs.

    It makes sense though, MLS doesn't spend on keepers. If you ran any other first division with < 300K/year keepers, you might see similar results.

    Why spend on keepers when you know you aren't going anywhere if they're terrible.
     
  18. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You’re probably the first person I’ve heard argue that goalkeepers are a weak point for MLS.

    Sure, MLS owners aren’t shelling out $1 million per keeper, but that’s true of every first division in the world, other than the top 4-5.
     
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  19. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    All from 2018/19. All from top rated goalkeepers.



    A more comprehensive roundup from around Europe this year.



    Also, the median salary in MLS is currently $140k, with a majority of starting keepers earning more than that. In many cases far more. Of the top of my head, I can think of 7-8. who are likely on 300k+.

    Howard, Guzan, Melia, Mannone, Robles, Rimando, Blake, Ousted.

    I did hear that Bill Hamid was on a relatively low salary despite being highly regarded. I know Bingham is north of 200k.

    Point being, while players in general are pretty cheap in MLS, starting goalies tend to be relatively well paid among the non-DPs (though a couple are actually DPs), which somewhat counters your theory that the lack of pro/rel causes teams to under-prioritize the position.
     
  20. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Besides... the league that's really infamous for adventures in goalkeeping is the J-League, which has pro/rel.
     
  21. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

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