The adult rec leagues (both indoor and outdoor) I played in until recently* have pro/rel and my team has very often turned down promotion after winning the lower division for that very reason. We're just not aggro enough for the top division. *Finally got around to making an appointment with my podiatrist, so who knows--maybe I'll make a comeback some day!
Absolutely ... and the key is WHICH owners are the ones that are more in that boat than not. MOSTLY it is the owners that, while not necessarily deepest of pockets, are going to be the owners in the league going forward. That's going to be what ultimately drives the changes in spending. K & K are either going to get on board that boat or will be seeing their way out of the league sooner rather than later (relatively speaking of course, and using them as representative owners).
Right but your still talking about an entire century. In a century Tulsa Athletic could be World Champions playing anti-gravity soccer in a 120,000 capacity space station.
Sure. Just make sure MLS/USL no longer have USSF D1 and D2 status (it shouldn't apply at all to closed leagues), give us the 10 year runway Rocco wanted and we're good to go. Otherwise MLS/USL will continue to have a patently unfair financial and competitive advantage.
Of course, I'll be long dead by then..... The original team 40 years ago didn't have to play "anti-gravity soccer in a 120,000 capacity space station." The closed system has done my market no favors.... #ProRelForUSA
Promotion/Relegation is based on open competition on the field of play, not entrenched closed league bureaucracies that overcharge for major league exclusivity and regional territorial rights.
Oh it's the tired "wood bat league" trope again. I'm curious why you reserve such ire for the USASA clubs instead of MiLB owners whose business model is far more exploitative.
And? I still don't understand why MLS and USL need to be kneecapped in order for USASA and NPSL clubs to do their own thing.
Thanks to PLS there is no major league exclusivity. If Donald Trump wants to start the XSL tomorrow he can do. Why couldn't the ten year runway is why it couldn't be done with D3 status? That would be a step up for most of the teams. What you're failing to acknowledge is that NASL only had 3 competitive teams and a bunch of signatures. Most NASL teams had already split to other leagues. I don't know the ins and outs but Malik, Edwards and whoever owns Indy presumably did.
This is patently false. There is no is no way possible it would be called anything other than "The Trump League".
The NASL has already been "kneecapped." USL League One is actively trying to "kneecap" Chattanooga FC. USL wants the NPSL to cease and desist using NPSL Pro after the completion of the Founders Cup.... Most recently, they've targeted the UPSL.... USL: WE WILL NOT STAND FOR ANOTHER LEAGUE HAVING A NAME SIMILAR TO OURS.Also USL: We are rebranding to “Championship” and “League One” pic.twitter.com/rLCdiR2r9r— Nipun Chopra, PhD (@NipunChopra7) May 21, 2019
I myself have very little patience for that sort of rhetoric. I think USASA soccer is great--my own son plays for a team. But I don't have a whole lot of time for amateur clubs which market pipe dreams and whatnot. Pro/rel isn't that important. It just isn't. Figure out a way to field a team and give your fans something to enjoy. Everything else is just gravy.
Well he does have a point. Tulsa's conference consists of 6 teams with a 10 game regular season, the top 4 teams making the playoffs. AC St Louis could have been promoted despite only winning 5 games. Maybe NPSL could think about an extended season before they talk about pro/rel.
To which I respond--the only way to make pro/rel work in the USA is to make D1 LESS lucrative and fiscally robust. This is why even though I like pro/rel in theory and even think arguments that--in a perfect world--pro/rel and single-table divisions suit the sport of soccer better than closed leagues and playoffs have merit; I still get very annoyed at pro/rel hardliners. Everything they want can ONLY be accomplished by tearing down what others have built up.
I am not going to comment on the merits of their complaint, but I also don't really understand the fuss around the divisional tiers. It's a non-integrated pyramid, who honestly cares what application form you filled out? The division designations mean nothing other than how low the bar is to enter the ride. On the other hand, this is kind of the argument for sidestepping the Pro Council altogether.
Apples and oranges comparison. MiLB (other than Pioneer League which is slightly different) is made up of professional teams. The key word being professional. Athletes are paid (often by the parent club) and while the pay sucks, these are professional adults who've made the choice to try and make their way in the professional sports ranks. It's not much different than actors doing the Shakespeare tours for little pay. They're at least getting compensated for their time and effort. USASA clubs are, in many cases, the soccer equivalent of college wood bat summer leagues in baseball. Up until this year, Detroit was the soccer equivalent of the Hamilton Joes baseball team. They played a short season and relied very heavily on collegiate athletes on summer break who were looking to improve their skills. The difference is that fans of the Hamilton Joes don't go around crowing about how much more authentic their intern team is, they don't market themselves as "grassroots community baseball" and they don't try to pass themselves off as the best thing about the game since the DH rule. Nor do they demand to be thrown in with the rest of MiLB or MLB. With these NPSL intern teams that's what we get. We get Geoff railing about how the poor Tulsa Athletics are locked out. Of course they are, they exist on a different planet. Start paying your players and create a D3 sanctioned league and then maybe you'll have a point. I mean, you don't but at least I'd respect the argument a little more. I don't know how many times I have to lay this out. And with this Founders Cup and NPSL-Pro stuff we get to hear it even more. Oh woe is us! The USSF is locking us out with their pro league standards so we'll hitch our wagons to the Cosmos and Miami FC (who could meet PLS but don't want to play ball with anyone else because they have lawsuits). So now we'll start our own division with hookers and blackjack! SMOAK BOMB!!!!
We are. It's called the Founders Cup. Before being "kneecapped" by the USL D3 Tulsa Roughnecks FC who bought and paid for Tulsa's USSF D3 territorial exclusivity, were unfairly promoted by USSF to D2 despite finishing DEAD LAST the previous season, we, the Tulsa Athletics, tried for months before, during, and after our second season to find a way to either join D2 NASL or help found an NPSL D3 pro league.... I remember those conversations quite vividly. Tulsa Athletics officials in discussions with NASL for pro soccer status By JOHN TRANCHINA World Correspondent, May 1, 2014
I feel that NASL kneecapped themselves by being unwilling to play the long game and grow organically. In the case of Chattanooga, my understanding was that they rejected USL as an option and a member of their FO decided that if they weren't going to do it, he would. I can see how that could be seen as cynical. I also question the wisdom in starting a team in the hope that they'll emulate the success of another team in the market. I can also understand it if you're a part of something like CFC but hit a wall because they don't want to join a higher league. I'm with you on the NPSL Pro & UPSL names. If people can live with USPS & UPS, I think they'll be fine. If USL are that worried, they can always rebrand themselves.
Founders Cup is a "let's all show how authentic we are" showcase. That's it. NPSL could extend its season and still not pay its players. If they're not looking for divisional sanctioning, it doesn't matter. But keep that narrative alive! The Tulsa Athletics aren't locked out of D3. They're not invited to the USL but they could easily join NISA if they have the means to do so. There's no divisional exclusivity. The University of Tulsa and Oral Roberts are both D1 college teams in the same market, but they play in different conferences (leagues). That's what USSF will do if another league pops up. As they should. #FACTSgetinthewayofyournarrative.
Besides the fact that this is the entire point of NPSL Pro... ...and the fact that pro/rel isn't some NPSL position... How would AC St. Louis (I'm assuming you're actually talking about Saint Louis Club Atletico) have been promoted? Not only did they lose their only playoff game, but they would have had to have won 5 more games, including over Miami FC.
But there has to be something between this and this Doesn't there? And what I should have said was AC St Louis could have been promoted despite only winning 5 regular season games.
I do have some sympathy here. The Athletic did what they were supposed to: they started at a level that was within their means, had immediately on-field and off-field success and feeling they were ready to grow, attempted to move up. One league went on hiatus and the other got a franchise in the same town with exclusivity over the market. @USRufnex - I may be misremembering but wasn't the team in discussions with USL at one point only to ditch them for the Roughnecks?