The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Scale matters. A lot. 5x what's in my wallet is a difference of $40. 5x my mortgage is the difference of $1m.
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is, yet again, not germane to the point being made. But you're good at those type of responses.

    One quote is from a actual director of an actual EFL club, the other is a poster here. By your own logic quoted above you should choose what he Accrington Stanley director is saying "a guy with actual clout" over a "self proclaimed expert from BigSoccer". But you won't, because the expert in this case agrees with you while the guy with clout does not.
     
    KCbus and CrazyJ628 repped this.
  3. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    MLS doesn't have D1 exclusivity.

    I agree that the SUM situation isn't a good look, though we don't know as yet if they've used that structure in bad faith.

    Their claim is that all parties have taken steps to mitigate scenarios where conflicts of interest could be a factor (but then they would say that).

    With that said, Silva's $4bn proposal (which I maintain was pure grandstanding) was much the same kind of relationship. As was the one that existed between NASL & CONCACAF via Traffic.

    I get that 2 'wrongs' don't make a 'right', but it doesn't paint a great picture of Silva as a good-faith actor.
     
    HailtotheKing and JasonMa repped this.
  4. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Worth noting for perspective that TFC spent more on 3 players than the next highest team spent total.
     
  5. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's why I asked you to explain because that was my point:
    The implication seems to be that because MLS teams potential best positions aren't so inherently tied to financial resources, the teams don't finish where they "deserve".

    I'm saying that they absolutely finish where they deserve & that United under that type of system wouldn't be so insulated by their ability to spend.

    Note that our season was deemed a disaster. Those of the teams in the positions immediately below, were deemed successes.
     
  6. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, it does ... but to pretend that the spending isn't happening at proportionally the same levels of disparity is being disingenuous. Sure, the scale of what 2x or 3x is ... isn't the same.

    Though I'd argue it's just as significant or even more so, the difference in which luxury car you're buying (EPL spending differences) VS whether or not you're buying a top line model or economy class vehicle (MLS).
     
  7. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes and the current system demands that you spend wisely in those 3 positions.

    There's no doing what Real Madrid did with Kaka or James Rodriguez, or Barca did with Zlatan, where you can have the player fail to make quite the expected impact and carry on regardless, possibly even by making a further huge signing.

    That IMHO is a good thing.
     
  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I think this is more in relation to Notts County or Sunderland.
     
  9. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In those situations, the owners in question would likely have lost their teams and new owners would have been sought, just as we saw with Chivas USA.

    I know that team technically no longer exists but that was because the new I/O for that league slot elected not to continue with as the same team. With that said, the Chivas USA supporters groups are alive and well, and very much present among the LAFC fan base.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Totally different era. Not only were salaries low, but you could take the European Cup by winning 5 matches, often against teams of the stature of the Icelandic and Finnish league champions.
     
  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Toronto's annual wage bill is 6 times that of Houston.
     
  12. Oh dear, the shit hits the fan again:rolleyes:
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  13. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Nonetheless, great achievement by Clough to take Forest to consecutive European Cups.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Breaking the bank on three players is a very different dynamic, though. Case in point, TFC's 3 DPs certainly were a huge reason for their championship in 2017, but spent much of last season injured and they came in 19th.

    If Man United lost their 3 highest wage earners, they'd still more than double Wolves' entire payroll. If Wolverhampton lost their 3 highest paid players, they'd be tied for last on the wage table with Cardiff.

    I don't think the scenarios are comparable.
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  15. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Again, you're about one Paul Pogba's difference between the two extremes of the league. Scale matters.
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  16. You obviously havenot been following those two clubs the last few years.
    Machester United was on the brink of losing 150-180 million revenue by for the second year not qualifying for the CL in triggering CL clauses with sponsors and lost CL revenues. Only by the win of the EL final against Ajax they narrowly escaped that huge loss because of the CL spot gained with the EL title.
    Now they're out again and the doom scenario looms again, especially as because of the poor performances the last few years stars are looking for the exit (among others Pogba) and signing new stars is proving a challenge ( De Ligt is rumoured to have shoved an offer for over 12 million a year off the table.
    So even those "locked in clubs" you phantasize up have to perform to stay on top of the food chain. If not, you come down fast.
    What pressure again is there in that closed league?
    Pressure in the top to stay on top or you will become insignificant?:rolleyes:Nope.
    Pressure in the lower part of the table as now your in a fight to stay in the top flight?:rolleyes:Nope.
    In the mls closed league there's no pressure as you always have the next season.
    You cannot loose big money like clubs like ManUnited if you under perform and when you're not so good this season, whatever, it got no consequences.
    The P/R leagues are to mls like leagues as the African plains are to the zoo.
    Life and death vs pampering.
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  17. Oh dear, the mantra of stupidity rehashes.
     
    USRufnex repped this.
  18. When you're quoting people that ignore the real reason for relegating and subsequently folding the mismanagement for years that already takes place long before clubs relegate, your not making yourself believable.
    Probably you believe a certain poster's idea you can relegate because of bad luck.:ROFLMAO:
     
  19. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've explained this to you before and I will again it's the connotation in the United States. When the term "Colored" was used, African Americans were denied basic rights through both legal and extra legal means including violence and intimidation. So as a way to admit that the racial beliefs from those times were wrong we no longer use terms from that time. If someone were to use that term in the US today you would assume they agreed with the Old ways.

    So that's the reality using that term around Americans basically is saying "I agree with how things used to be" not how they are now. It may be very different in the Netherlands, but here is the key, this forum is Soccer in the USA. meaning by definition there will be Americans. And we are saying that term is considered offensive in American English.
     
  20. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scale does matter, which was part of my point about the relatively wealth of top-level soccer in England. Even the "underdogs" are pretty damn wealthy in the bigger scheme of things.
     
    Expansion Franchise repped this.
  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was just thinking about the fact that we already have Pro/Rel here in the US, just non in the fully professional leagues.

    Maybe give the sport a generation or two to grow a true soccer culture at the grassroots level, and see what changes that might lead to?
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, there's one person quoted here with clout (running a EFL team) and some posters here who are just posters. Not to mention directors of other lower-league teams that responded to that director and what I heard myself from the CEO of another EFL team. Barring any additional info (like actual verifiable facts or input from other people with similar clout) I'm going to put my faith in the people who literally does this type of stuff for a living.
     
  23. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Yes, and then when you consider a Big 6's bench would be of higher quality than other PL teams' starters...
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  24. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    But again. Notts County is in the position they are in because they are an organizational dumpster fire run by a moron. To use them as the poster child of "oh no, relegation might hurt clubs!" is obfuscating the real underlying problem.
     
  25. Your not quoting someone with clout (whatever that means in this context) but someone with an agenda to blurp that nonsense. Hundreds of clubs, thousands actually, have been relegated without that being completed with a funeral. Instaed of quoting one person with an agenda you really should do better to go for the numbers in case and only in rare cases, mostly the result of what I described, that is a death sentence. However to get that death sentence you have to be a perpetual relegator down the tables, which automatically calls up my reasons and not that twit's one.
    If this is your "proof" of you're argument you just failed.
     

Share This Page