The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    That just goes to show how much the MLS2 teams prop up the western conference.
    This would be one hurdle to any USL Premier and pro/rel within USL. If you move the most likely suspects up to USL Premier the western conference would lose OKC, Las Vegas, Orange County, and San Antonio (assuming St. Louis/Sacramento/Phoenix all move to MLS). You'd then be left with a lot of MLS 2 sides in the Championship and League One. I guess you could do away with conferences at the lower levels but I don't see why you would.
     
  2. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you are a year behind, these look like the 2017 standings.

    In 2018:

    EAST
    1. FCC
    2. LCFC
    3. Pitt
    4. Charleston
    5. RBNY2
    6. BSFC
    7. Indy 11
    8. Nash

    9. NCFC
    10. Ottawa
    11. Charlotte
    12. Tampa Bay
    13. Penn FC
    14. ATL 2
    15. Richmond
    16. TFC 2

    WEST
    1. Orange County
    2. Sac Rep
    3. Phoenix
    4. Real Monarchs
    5. Reno
    6. Portland 2
    7. Swope Park Rangers
    8. St Louis

    9. San Antonio
    10. OKC
    11. Colorado Springs
    12. Fresno
    13. RGV
    14. LAG2
    15. LVFC
    16. Seattle 2
    17. Tulsa
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the mid-table teams with virtually nothing to play for for most of the season have also averaged close to capacity.
     
  4. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    So this argument that "fighting for seventh place" is uninteresting is a crock then.

    Looks like half the league can still get relegated and the rest could still qualify for the Europa League (if Man City win the FA Cup).
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just fyi, RGV and Reno have independent supporters groups that you don't see at "2" teams. They also average higher attendances than 2 teams.

    RGV average 3,781, Reno 3,064. Compare that to the Union's Bethlehem Steel with 663 or SKC's Swope Park Rangers' 459.
     
  6. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You always get a crowd to watch a train wreck it doesn't make it interesting its just human nature. I think you'd find the attendance numbers for terrible NFL teams who are eliminated from playoffs to be similar. Why? Because just like soccer in England, the NFL is king here and fans will show up.
     
    jaykoz3 and HailtotheKing repped this.
  7. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Odd, when local teams are reduced to "playing for better draft choices" every man and his dog seems to be trying to sell their tickets. Otoh, in a pro/rel pyramid, relegation nailbiters are actually a hot ticket.

    Thought you'd decided to piss off from this thread?
     
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember the days before every Premier League/ First Division match was virtually a guaranteed sellout. Here are Notts final games in our 1983/84 relegation season.

    Sat 14 April MANCHESTER UNITED W 1-0 13 911
    Tue 1 May WOLVERHAMPTON W. W 4-0 5 378
    Sat 5 May QUEENS PARK RANGERS L 0-3 7 309
    Sat 12 May LIVERPOOL D 0-0 18 745
    Thu 17 May SOUTHAMPTON L 1-3 6 035

    Our capacity at the time was just under 20,000.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  9. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    You are correct. My mistake.
     
  10. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Oakland Raiders averaged 54K last season (a season that they announced they were leaving to LV and gutted the team aka no real reason to go see the team). Why would those fans go to those games? My argument is that the EPL and NFL are the top dogs in sports in their countries. So comparing the EPL to MLS is like comparing the NHL and EIHL (Englands Hockey league) and wondering how the brits are doing hockey so poorly. The EPL and NHL have old teams that have built up roots and have fans that see them as timeless sports institutions that they follow thick and thin. Soccer here doesn't have these roots and so it can't sustain the turmoil of pro/rel just yet.

    https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsbu...ance-down-slightly-in-2018-steelers-buck.html
     
  11. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope, just haven't found anything of interest to rebut but your lack of knowledge of the US sporting culture brought me back.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  12. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Glad I could be of service.
     
  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    You mean they "sold" an average of 54k tickets. There certainly weren't that number of people in attendance at many of the games.
     
  14. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes just like the EPL clubs "sold" tickets. You're helping my argument by the way.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45158878
     
  15. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    I see a lot of "big six" teams in that list but no relegation-threatened teams. So... no.

    For the NFL:

    https://www.breitbart.com/sports/20...dance-woes-continue-thousands-seats-go-empty/

    Oh, and there's this:

    "American sports executives have long operated under different rules, whereby the announced attendance frequently bears little relation to the number of people present. "

    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...leagues-attendance-figures-arsenal-celtic-mls
     
  16. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you have proof that other EPL don't follow suit or do you just think that way to further your baseless argument? Do you have a link that shows other clubs don't do like wise? The EPL and the NFL are similar on many levels, hell the EPL and NFL work hand in hand in some cases. Look at the NFL games played in London.
     
  17. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #19992 M, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:13 AM
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019 at 2:28 AM
    It behooves the person trying to make argument to provide information to substantiate it. I do agree that it’s sad an American owner has brought this disease to Arsenal’s attendances.

    NFL games up until now have been played at Wembley, which isn’t a Premier League stadium. You seem very clueless about US sporting culture.
     
  18. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Excellent we are in agreement then, I'll wait for your link that states that mid table and lower table prem teams don't follow attendance accounting practices that its biggest clubs apparently adhere to.
     
  19. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really? Didn't Tottenham play there for 2 seasons?
     
  20. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're going to keep trying to make straw doll with this?

    K

    No, we've stated a number of times that England having people show up at the top level isn't really an indication of anything other than England has the largest/deepest pool of soccer fans in the world. Nobody has stated otherwise, ever.

    Half the league might be mathematically still in the relegation "race" or in relegation "danger" but in reality only two clubs (Southampton/BH) are in any real danger ... and Southampton 8pts up with the same number of remaining games isn't exactly sweating. Hell BH is 5pts up with a game in hand.

    Hot tickets in a pro/rel pyramid eh? Guess that's why Eisbären Bremerhaven can oly draw 2/3 of their arena capacity ... or why Delteco GBC are drawing so many empty seats to their 11K arena.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45158878
    West Ham inflating by 22% - Southampton 13% - Watford 15%
    For some reason only EIGHT of the 20 clubs responded to the request for the numbers (gee, wonder why). Directly states that tickets sold is reported because: "Some clubs say they choose to publish 'tickets sold' because the data is more consistent and provides a simpler auditing process"

    and it's been going on too: http://stadiumdb.com/news/2014/08/premier_league_most_clubs_inflate_attendances (2014)


     
    barroldinho, CrazyJ628 and DanGerman repped this.
  22. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    So nothing to back up your argument. Got it.
     
  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Wembley is the national stadium belonging to the FA. Tottenham May have played there whilst their ground was being rebuilt but it most certainly isn’t a Premier League stadium.
     
  24. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, pretending things weren't posted. Here you go since you missed it on purpose:

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45158878
    West Ham inflating by 22% - Southampton 13% - Watford 15%
    For some reason only EIGHT of the 20 clubs responded to the request for the numbers (gee, wonder why). Directly states that tickets sold is reported because: "Some clubs say they choose to publish 'tickets sold' because the data is more consistent and provides a simpler auditing process"

    and it's been going on too: http://stadiumdb.com/news/2014/08/premier_league_most_clubs_inflate_attendances (2014)
     
  25. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually provided a link showings EPL clubs use the same attendance method as the NFL. YOU claim that this is not so for mid to lower level EPL clubs, so show us the link stating that.
     

Share This Page