The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Who would sue whom and in what jurisdiction? A FIFA mandate would have to be resolved through the DRC, wouldn't it?
     
  2. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Good question. I don't know exactly. But there would be some legal standing for an American company to fight against and outside organization trying to interfere in how it runs its business. Steven Bank gives a great rundown on why the current CAS arbitration is unlikely to be successful.


    But let's say FIFA says "5 years or you're out". The first shot IMO would be USSF backed by USL and MLS to go to CAS to get the order reversed. They'd probably be joined by the Australian league and possibly anyone representing the super league (once that gets off the ground).

    If USSF tries to enforce it, MLS and USL sue USSF. TV networks sue MLS, municipalities sue MLS and it snowballs from there.
     
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  3. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    To be clear, I'm not using this as some sort of "gotcha" against your prediction - I just see this lawsuit argument get raised all the time and legitimately wonder what the reality of that would actually look like.
     
  4. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nothing negative taken. I honestly don't know where it would go next since I'm not a lawyer but I do know that there are legal routes that can be taken. The Canadian women's national team sued FIFA over artificial turf at the WWC.
     
  5. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I don't know what DRC stands for. :oops:

    I could see the MLS owners suing USSF and or FIFA, or perhaps MLS and USSF suing FIFA, or some other combo thereof.

    Remember that FIFA obligated the USSF to start a pro league and that at no point in the formation and startup of said league did FIFA inform the USSF or prospective owners that promotion and relegation was a required feature.

    Forcing them to assume risk at this point could cause a backlash.
     
  6. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm aware. I believe that you're incorrect. That doesn't answer the question.

    A high-ranking moderator has stepped in.

    To my mind, of all the armistices, reboots and efforts to change the tone, I don't recall you ever participating.

    I'm willing to give it a last try if you are prepared to make the effort but I am done with engaging in a one-sided effort.

    Are you willing to draw a line under this and attempt to proceed civilly?
     
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  7. owian

    owian Member+

    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree there are probably a bunch of lawsuits but doubt the USSF launches the first one. Probably not a good idea to start suing the overarching body if you want to remain part of it. I could see MLS, or even more likely individual teams, launching lawsuits. We'd probably need to wade pretty deep into MLS bylaws to determine if they would need to go through the CAS first. If they did I wouldn't hold my breath, my guess would be CAS ruling in favor of FIFA.

    If things did eventually get into court it could get pretty contentious with FIFA most likely threatening to pull their sanctioning which would put USSF, the Players, the Refs, and MLS LLC in a really tough spot as the wheels of justice turned very slowly. You'd probably have injunctions, and stays, and appeals, leading to contracts being voided, then unvoided, matches allowed to go forward with FIFA refs then denied refs and so on. One big F*** mess.

    But if FIFA stuck to their guns, my guess is MLS would be faced with two choices. Either dissolve with the owners then suing FIFA for damages, or introduce some level of pro/rel.
     
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  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Dispute Resolution Chamber.
     
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  9. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess my question would be: To what end?

    MLS is what it is, and it works just fine. What benefit does it serve that’s so astronomically amazing that FIFA would want to interject itself into USSF business? What would FIFA get out of it that would be worth the nightmare of litigation, expense and bad PR that would ensue?

    Even if you hold the opinion that pro/rel is the way to go... even if FIFA held that opinion... how is this worth FIFA’s while?
     
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  10. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Many in the pro/rel camp don't like USL all too much either, HOWEVER there are plenty of areas and a nice handful of owners sitting there with either the ability or the potential to do what you're talking about here. BOTH SIDES have to be willing to compromise and get over things in order for it to work, period. The USL might be one of the things p/r people have to get over. Much of the lip service that the NASL gave out, the USL is actually doing.

    College soccer isn't and will never be anything like that because soccer doesn't have the age restrictions that come with the other US major sports. Yes, there are elite youth set ups for the other sports BUT all those kids still have to go to at minimum 1yr of college before going to the major leagues. Not so in soccer. That fact alone will forever keep college soccer from being anything near what cfb etc are.

    What it CAN BE/IS, is another outlet that doesn't exist in many places around the world.

    You've said this quite a bit yet these gaps exist in every pro/rel league too. Sure in the established countries there's a little margin blurring at the absolute bottom of the top and the absolute top of the next tier but don't let that gloss over just how huge the gap is overall. The gap between "#1" soccer team to "#50" soccer team is NOTHING compared to that gap in most other places.

    It's a little funny though that you say this given that one of the biggest shots at MLS is the "parity" and mediocrity, etc. It's a bit of having the cake and eating it too. We can't have these huge gaps and stratification but our top league will never be anything unless we let the top clubs spend what they want and open them up to create a huge gap and stratification?

    It IS funny and it is one of the main things myself and others constantly harp on. The vast majority of all pro/rel supporters (at least the vocal ones) only seem to care/think about the promotion aspect. That is by far the lesser of the issues. There is an ugly side to pro/rel and it is NEVER talked about or even attempted to be rationally dealt with.
     
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  11. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that anything like a steel cage match?
     
  12. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Probably more along the lines of professional wrestling.
     
  13. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Speaking of pro wrestling MLS vs. FIFA has all kinds of storytelling potential:

    "And it's official, after a 2-0 loss to LAFC the Chicago Fire become the first MLS side to be relegated--wait, what the hell, that's Don Garber's music...!!!"
     
  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    THAT STADIUM HAS A FAMILY [in attendance and not much else]
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #19365 Paul Berry, Mar 17, 2019 at 9:15 AM
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 9:28 AM
    Dude! Because FIFA is such a respector of human rights, see:

    2018 World Cup
    2022 World Cup

    And if FIFA were to try and impose pro/rel in the US, surely they would have done so as a condition of awarding the 2026 World Cup. MLS only exists because it was a condition of winning the 1994 World Cup.
     
  16. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So I've been out of town and mostly off-line the past few days.

    What did I miss?
     
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  17. How much time can you justify to spend on that:D
     
  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    What is your tolerance for simian feces?
     
  19. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've spent three blessed days off social media and away from my daily life, at a Virginia history conference with my peers.

    It's been lovely. I may need to ease my way back into this thread. Jumping straight in may be too traumatic.
     
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  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would have insisted on Pro/Rel in Mexico and Canada too! Oh wait.....I forgot...those countries don't count in the Pro/Rel debate.............only Europe
     
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  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CPL has mentioned pro/rel as a strategic goal but it's difficult to implement with only 9 teams spread across 5 time zones.

    Mexico has pro/rel based on results over 3 seasons, if the owners choose not to buy their way out.
     
  22. Is this how they call those confederate battle re-enactments these days:cautious:
    :ROFLMAO:
    These guys?
    [​IMG]
     
  23. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #19374 bigredfutbol, Mar 17, 2019 at 1:24 PM
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019 at 4:19 PM
    Three of the people on the stage were students in Prince Edward County in 1959 when the county government took the infamous drastic step of closing down the public school system rather than comply with Brown v. Board of Education.

    Quite the honor to meet them and hear their stories. That was the first panel the first night--a great way to start the conference and really honored the location, since this years event was at Longwood University in Farmville, the County seat of Prince Edward County.

    (The fourth person--the young man on the right--is the director of the museum in that building, which is the former school building the others attended. He's a local, and his father was another one of the African-American students who lost four years of public schooling thanks to that segregationist action).
     
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  25. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    ...where UEFA seemingly has no issue with the fact that San Marino doesn't have it - despite their league having it for the first decade of their existence.
     
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