The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #19301 USRufnex, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    You deserved the accolade, much like how Vladimir Putin deserves Man of the Year honors.

    Congrats to you and your bots & sockpuppets!

    Meanwhile, here in the real world...
     
  2. From what year is that?
    According to this with stats from 2018 in €€ the Eredivisie is ranked above the J-league with 277809 €€ (=313925$$) average salary.

    Ajax en PSV breken door salarisplafond en stuwen Eredivisie naar zestiende plek
    Gepubliceerd: vrijdag 30 november 2018 om 10:30

    Een plekje in de mondiale financiële subtop, daar zal het Nederlandse voetbal het mee moeten doen. Volgens jaarlijks onderzoek van Sporting Intelligence is de Eredivisie de op zestien na best betalende voetbalcompetitie ter wereld.

    De 277.809 euro die de gemiddelde Eredivisie-speler jaarlijks mag bijschrijven, is volgens de Global Sports Salaries Survey 2018 goed voor een zeventiende plek in het onderzoek met 67 landen (waaronder Azerbeidzjan, Nigeria, Gibraltar en Moldavië, red.). De hoogste voetbalcompetitie van Nederland staat ingeklemd tussen de Zwitserse Super League (278.288 euro) en de Japan J-League (270.557 euro).
     
  3. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Good for them. Hopefully if any implementation occurs, it takes into account the risks and doesn't damage what stability we already have.

    I'm on record as saying I'd love to be proven wrong and that I'd support any measured efforts.
     
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  4. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    I believe you. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/...razilian-soccer-team-crashes-in-colombia.html

    I honestly don't know the answer to this - who does Ted mention more, me or Deloitte?

    Who does Bragg mention more, me or Deloitte?

    Who do you mention more, me or Deloitte?

    Like I said - I don't know the answer, because all of your feeds suck tardigrade cock. But I can guess what the answer is.

    If it wasn't me that skinned, boned, fileted and tanned that report? Someone must have. Because no one brings it up.

    Tell me all about blog content, big guy http://www.tulsaroughnecks.com/blog.html

    What the ********?

    Do you also think tiny people live in the radio to sing to you specifically?

    You know what? I'll call this bluff. Post the argument that was so great, it kicked my butt.

    See, I remember it as you spamming my feed with the same tedious, ponderous twaddle you pollute this thread with. And you got what you always get - unvarnished contempt.

    But go ahead, prove me wrong. Show us what you got, Big Mac.
     
  5. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #19305 USRufnex, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Political activists like to say just about anything they can to get noticed, even if it involves trying to exploit a tragedy or civil rights to get their point across.

    Deloitte doesn't troll Ted on a regular basis.

    Bragg doesn't mention you at all unless I remind him of your asshattery, so that's probably a pass.

    I'm going to go with Deloitte on this one, Dan, since I've mentioned Deloitte several times, but just about anytime I talk about you, I make it a point to mention both you and (the hatchet job you did on) Deloitte.

    That's because the Deloitte Report is typical of any feasibility study commissioned with an agenda in mind... in this case, your arch-enemy, Pro/Rel. You coulda done the same thing with any of the feasibility studies done with Conventions, Sports and Leisure.... it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Hell, Neil DeMause does this on practically a daily basis over at Field of Schemes, so how the hell are you suddenly so special?

    MLS commissioner doubles down on giving teams to whichever cities cough up stadiums
    Posted on March 13, 2019 by Neil deMause
    I'm going to attempt to keep it relatively brief.
    I remember it was on a weekday, and after several one-on-one exchanges it became very apparent that you had every intention of getting the last word, or a multitude of last words, if memory serves...

    So, I thought, "What the heck?" I got the entire day off work. I'll just go from telling him why I changed my mind on Pro/Rel to responding to everything Danny-boy has to say about it. I kept responding wondering if you were ever going to back down and say something along the lines of "let's just agree to disagree," but then outta nowhere, you turned into the rhetorical equivalent of the Chicken Lady explosion from those old Kids In The Hall episodes... you see, Dan, it isn't "spamming" if you continue to respond to everything I have to say, but it really IS spamming if you just start typing random unintelligible gibberish because you decided to go out of your freaking mind...

    Funny you should say that, because I tend to try to stay away from sexually explicit insults and although my Chicken Lady/Rooster Boy link is probably in poor taste, let me respond to this you typed earlier on this very same post...

    So, the last time I had to deal with the kind of crap I had to report tonight on twitter was when I argued with you over Motorik FC on Bigsoccer so you sent your bots/sockpuppets? over the Twitter to harrass them much like was done on this particular tweet from earlier this evening:

    1106354082455785472 is not a valid tweet id


    Coincidence? I think not.
    Further, I believe that if it was found that someone wholeheartedly in favor of Pro/Rel engaged in this kind of behavior, they'd be at least yellow-carded. What happens to you in case BigSoccer investigates is probably anybody's guess... I'm guessing you'll get another pass...

    So, just in case the twitter link is deleted (one way or other), here is my report from twitter including the tweet in question:

    Tweet ID 1106354082455785472 Jed Festerwelt @Festerwelt recipients:
    @AlamoCitySC @LuisArreola19 @tulsaroughnecks

    This MLS bot really does need to block. He can't take any more blows from the dual clenched-fists of pro and rel, courtesy of my two favorite sock puppets!

    I've got one fist in Luis, another in USR. They're pounding like wildmen and making a mess on your face!


    Thank you again for reporting this issue to us. Reports like this help us identify issues, making your communities and Twitter better.

    Twitter
     
  6. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ironically, rich parents typically don't need to pay someone to get their kids into college. They simply only need to cut the tuition check, and make a nice donation.

    Considering Aunt Becky spent $500K to get her kid into USC..........she could have easily cut the tuition check, and a donation, which would have likely been less than $500K...........
     
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  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Google Sporting Intelligence Global Sports Salaries 2018 and you get a nice report that breaks down average salary per team. But the fact that Schalke players get paid more on average than Miami Dolphins doesn't mean much as NFL teams have huge rosters.

    I scanned the report but didn't see any Eredivisie teams. Toronto sit just behind Eibar and Nice, just ahead of Getafe.
     
  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Jesus, people. I step away from this thread for two lousy days and it devolves into monkeys clearing an entire Walgreens out of laxatives.
     
  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every one of your supposed arguments for pro/rel gets twisted into anti-MLS vitriol with anyone who disagrees with you being personified as a "MLS bot".

    It's impossible to have a sensible discussion when you're actively posting.

    No wonder you and your clan have so few followers.
     
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  10. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    What Chinese club has outspent Chelsea?
     
  11. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Clarify, please.
    Who are you responding to and why?
     
  12. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC, some Chinese club did spend more than Chelsea did in transfer fees in one particular season. It isn't a routine thing, though, and CSL payrolls are much lower. A single big transfer can distort aggregate numbers quite a bit.
     
    barroldinho repped this.
  13. They signed a Chelsea player with a contract that made the Chelsea management complain they can't match that. Forgot what player exactly and what club it was. About two years ago. Not long after that the Chinese federation/gouvernment put the brakes on those extreme contracts and transfer fees with harsh rules.
     
  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    That's the thing, though. Guangzhou Evergrande's wage bill is about 1/3 of Chelsea's. "They aren't making a dent" because a whole lot of that 1/3 is on one or two players that they have overpaid for. The other 23 guys on the roster are nowhere near the quality of European squads.
    If they actually outspent Chelsea (or Newcastle, but by median, rather than mean), they could probably make some dents.
     
    CrazyJ628 repped this.
  15. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    It isn't even appropriate for political activists to pull shit like this. But you give yourself and others a pass.

    And this is, more than any other reason, why you suck.

    Ted is not a political activist, and neither are you. Promotion and relegation is not a political or social cause. Pretending otherwise is just rationalization for your many, many misguided psychological failings. Fire your therapist or hire one, whichever is appropriate.

    Maybe find something else to talk about with Marshall, Stan

    Twitter has a search function. I wonder what you'd find.

    Then why are you always citing it? And have you noticed literally no one else does? Why would that be?

    I'm sure you're used to hearing this by now, but you failed.

    What. Was the argument. You made. That was so devastating? You can paraphrase it here, I don't need a screenshot. Devastate me again.

    Choose your up, Jeff: put or shut.

    I see.

    This won't convince you - you being delusional, and all - but I have never had a fake Twitter account. I've never had a pseudonymous Twitter account. I've never even had a separate account under my name devoted to other, non-soccer topics.

    Fortunately, convincing you is not relevant - it's simply a fact. And it really says something that every time you, Westervelt, or Bragg go online you're afraid I'll jump out of the shadows.

    I'm in your head, and that's one cramped, dark, depressing place. I guess that's why I use it to store junk.
     
    barroldinho repped this.
  16. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry @Dan Loney it actually goes to this one:

    GEE I WONDER WHY (no Jeff, it isn't for one of the stupid bullshit reasons you're going to say that it is)

    How many of those clubs pay their players?
    How many of those clubs have existed for 5yrs? 10?
    How many are merely youth clubs riding coattails?

    YES JEFF, all of those things matter and are telling of the truth to what this little stunt is. And, YES JEFF the truth of those 3 questions AREN'T going to line up with your narrative, spin, and other bullshit rhetoric.

    So it's just fine for pro/rel sympathizers to use tragedies like that to push the pro/rel agenda ... that's fine with you, is what you're saying. Right here and now you're admitting that you KNOW Ted used that as a prop to sling his pro/rel radicalism (which even you can't deny Ted is a p/r radical) and you're brushing it off as not big deal.

    THAT is half the reason you are seen as you are. If you can't see the issue here, I truly - TRULY feel for you. If you can see it but choose to be that way, then yeah I've no phucks to give.

    Bragg, yourself, Ted, and others absolutely do mention us without prompting. In fact, I called you out in this thread for doing it to me. Teddo just chimed in about me on the recent convo YOU chimed in on with myself @barroldinho and FCA LAT ... YES JEFF, ya'll do that.

    Ok, take Dan's point by point out of the equation. Explain the other people that have pointed out the very serious and telling issues with "that" Deloitte report.

    Oh wait ... you just said it was full of shit. SO YOU DO UNDERSTAND ... you merely choose to hold it up because you like it.
     
    CrazyJ628, barroldinho and Dan Loney repped this.
  17. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I believe, Oscar to Shanghai for 50-60 million…Chelsea made out like a bandit…and like you say, any concerns were short lived…
     
  18. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    2017 so they may have omitted the Dutch league but the point still remains that even paying NHL levels, MLS would then be the second highest paying league in the world. https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-mlb-nba-nhl-average-sports-salaries-2017-11

    Of this list of the highest-paid sports teams, only 8 are European soccer teams (oddly, they're all ones that are basically immune from relegation and hoard championships WHO KNEW!) the rest are NBA teams. https://www.businessinsider.com/the...million-939-million-average-pay-per-player-24
     
  19. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Brava!!!!!
     
  20. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    To be clear, this is average pay per player, so that's a little biased towards the NBA since it has far fewer players on a team.
     
  21. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In recent days, any lingering remnants of respect I might have had for you have evaporated.

    You are a snowflake, sir.

    A petty child who completely abandons reason and logic when it defies his narrative.

    You've shown that you'll tolerate objectively disgusting behavior so long as the perpetrator is on your perceived "side", yet have zero tolerance for even the slightest perceived slight, if someone holds a differing view.

    Aaron Stollar, who has unfortunately deleted his twitter account apparently, once tweeted the Ted tried to get him fired after a debate.

    He actually had a Vice journo harassing @Dan Loney about whether he was a real person, who when Dan wouldn't dignify it with a response, put the implication in published print.

    He got creepy with a Colorado resident that he was debating with, by demanding he verify he was real by specifying local eateries.

    He has made quips about supporting caste systems to people of Indian heritage.

    He smeared the "wrong side of the pond" guy as racist for innocently referring to a demographic.

    Then during a debate with me, he impugned my integrity then when I said I was done, I returned home from running errands to find a succession of tweets quoting me out of context and smearing me further.

    That's on top of the Chapacoense stuff, the heavyhanded suggestions that pro/rel is a cause on par with the civil rights movement.

    If I did half of what Ted did, you'd be screaming bloody murder.

    And you know it.
     
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  22. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's not a double standard on posting FACTS Jeff.

    Per the usual you simply cannot come to terms on what the actual FACTS are.
     
  23. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Quit smearing people.

    @KCbus is NOT a moderator on this particular forum.

    Even if he was, a mod is not the equivalent of the teacher you presumably used to run and tattle to in playschool.

    It's an objective fact that when you were on a self-imposed ban for not agreeing to conform to the standards you annaly hold others to, many excellent discussions occurred. Some of which led me to evolve my position on certain aspects of the subject.

    You're toxic and a shit-stirrer to boot.
     
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  24. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #19324 USRufnex, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
    Nonsense.

    I would like to take this time to apologize... to Ted Westervelt.

    If it weren't for him going over the top in a comparison of Pro/Rel for this country to a civil rights issue many years ago, I'd have never really understood how political the issue actually is. If it weren't for his principled positions on fairness, open markets, and opportunities for independent clubs, I'd still think Pro/Rel is nothing more than a "standings gimmick" used to placate anglophile and europoseur soccer fans. If it weren't for what I enjoyed as a funny yet oddly accurate comparison Ted made between MLS and Applebees, I'd have never seen the unfair demonization and vitriol directed towards him by Bigsoccer's usual suspects. If it weren't for those same usual suspects trying to tar me with the "Tulsa Ted" label, I never would have taken the time to go onto twitter and actively attempt to seek out the views of others who've also been accused of having Ted as their "leader." If it weren't for the mischaracterized attacks on Ted for calling out the media on how they covered the "Chapacoense stuff," I'd simply never have taken the extra time to read the full story, a miraculous "Leicester City-like" run from the 4th Division in 2009 all the way to the top division by 2014. Something that, at its worst, could be characterized as little more than poor taste.

    The only petty, childish little snowflake I've observed over the past 5 years
    is anti-Pro/Rel activist, Dan Loney. I've experienced his crap first-hand, and was unlucky enough to be checking my twitter feed when he pulled the same shit on journalist Roy Bragg. And I know what he tried to pull on a Louisville fan, which happens to be strangely similar to what Ted supposedly accused someone of from "Wrong Side of the Pond?"

    So, Dan wants a screenshot?.. or it didn't happen?
    Make me laugh.

    If I did half of what Dan did, you'd be screaming bloody murder.
    And you know it.

    I'll take Bigsoccer double standards for $300, Alex...

    [​IMG]
     
  25. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #19325 USRufnex, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
    You first.

    I'd say the same thing about @KCbus and many of the posts from HTTK and Crazy that you choose to rep. And looky at who just repped your post...

    "What are... the usual suspects?"
    "Correct."

    I'll take BigSoccer Double-Standards for $400, Alex.

    [​IMG]
     

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