Of all the illegal things that have happened in the history of college sports, can you name one that would have been prevented by pro/rel in professional American soccer, which is the topic of this thread?
If the non-revenue sport of collegiate soccer were ever replaced by a merit based tiered system of local and regional clubs and all college scholarships were based only on academic excellence rather than relying on some prohibitively expensive pedigree of prestigious pay-to-play private youth soccer clubs to back your way into an academically prestigious university... Then students of modest means would ultimately be better off, and you might even have many of the best players from several colleges (and types of colleges) all on the same local or regional team for more than just a short summer season in the NPSL, PDL, etc etc... and they wouldn't risk being stripped of their scholarship eligibility if they played alongside more seasoned and higher paid professionals or maybe even were paid modest wages themselves...
My position on college sports is quite simple, namely get the money out of it by ceasing to have it function as a training ground for professional athletes and by ceasing to award scholarships for purported sporting excellence. Will that happen under the current US professional sports model of an overarching closed major league that relies on colleges (some more than others) for athlete training?
If we stipulate this all would happen in the American soccer biz, how does this stop the development of a bribery/fraud ring where parents hire imposters to take the SAT and then bribe the water polo coach?
If there were no sports scholarships and sporting achievement was not a factor in admissions, what would be the point of bribing the water polo coach?
It won't happen regardless of the professional sports system. There is money in college sports because there is massive popular interest in two particular college sports. Switch all of the big pro leagues to pro/rel, and there's still that interest and that money and the corruption that goes with it. We'd just have differently organized pro leagues. And if the pro/rel is only implemented in soccer, the topic of this thread, the impact on the money problems of the college sports system would be especially non-existant, as college soccer is a blip in the system of college sports.
I agree. The US is stuck with a corrupt system of college sports and a mess of a closed league system. "It's all about the benjamins".
Irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Pro/rel in American soccer would not eliminate college sports scholarships nor eliminate sports recruit admissions preferences.
You honestly think that Nick Saban is taking phony recruits for payoffs? So, implementing pro/rel would make sports less lucrative? That's an intriguing sales pitch for investors.
You guys have a very weird idea of what being a moderator entails. We're supposed to oversee particular forums. That's it. We didn't sign an oath or waive our POV.
No, you ********ing well did not. "Hundred." Crybaby. And hypocrite. Roy Bragg used his blue checkmark on someone to pretend he didn't know what a fantasy team was, and spammed about how he was pretending to be an actual soccer club. Exhibit MMDCCLXVII of pro/rel's terminal case of Dish It Out But Can't Take It. And dumbass. All he had to do was mute, if he didn't want to read. But he made sure to have my Tweets on in a different window. As for you, Jeff, you've lost this, and every other argument, so comprehensively that it's quite breathtaking. You will never, ever have your precious promotion and relegation. And you will never, ever have anything interesting to say about it. I'll argue with anybody, but you? You're just too ********ing boring.
High Education costs a lot of money. There are more non-athletic Grants and Scholarships than there are athletic ones. Get your head out of the sand. The reason the Water Polo coach was used was because that coach is likely part time, and not making a whole lot. Outside of Football and Basketball at major Universities, most sports only offer a handful of full tuition covered scholarships, the majority of athletic scholarships and grants are partial financial aid that also include minimum academic requirements in order to keep said scholarship. You've lived in the states long enough to know this. You've also lived long enough to know that corruption is everywhere, including the exalted, merit based, pro/rel leagues in the rest of the world.
Sure college sports is a cesspool of shady s***. Personally I'd keep "College Atheltics" but at least in the revenue sports I'd straight up pay the players and no longer require them to actually be students. Make them employees of the University just like the coaches are. But here's the thing this didn't involve those sports. This involved non-revenue programs , that yes give bonuses to Athletes but it's like being president of your ASB. It's a way for University's to add to their diversity by getting athletes not just eggheads. And yes every school wants to win but Yale's annual donations are not being impacted by the success of their Women's soccer team. I mean think about it, you could implement pro/rel, and completely eliminate college soccer as a path to the pro's. Like it is in Europe. And Yale would still have a women's soccer team, and would still allow their coach some juice in acceptance. I was in College sailing FFS, and our SAILING coach get a guy in who wouldn't make the cut just on academics. Plus again this isn't an athletic scandal, this is all about the moral corruption of our society.
So we have to tolerate shamateurism because it makes college football coaches unbribeable? It was a reference to running a for-profit college sports business on the backs of supposedly amateur athletes.
If someone from your side said something like that, you'd consider it "snarky." Now you, the instigator, have somehow become the victim.... awesome. I have seen you at work for years. I had you on IGNORE for months at a time, but you can't take a hint. From the tweets I've seen, this person knows a helluva lot more than you do, but you can't handle it, so you take snarky insults and try to turn the guy into a racist homophobe. I don't like you, either. In fact, I've never liked you. Classic witch hunt mentality from a KNOWN TWITTER TROLL. And Barry, who's been trolling Ted for awhile now, has repped you again. How utterly unsurprising.
Beyond you apparently not reading anything into this admissions scandal, this statement right here just points out how ignorant you are about collegiate athletics. 99% of all athletic departments are not "for-profit". I'm also pretty sure none of them can be "for profit". The mega schools like Texas that make a ton of revenue have to pour that revenue back into their programs to provide things like meals, housing, tuition costs (which increase every year), medical facilities, training facilities, and all sorts of things. Saban, Myer, and other mega-coaches salaries are paid by TV revenue mostly and through donors. Very few of the major coaches are paid through student fees. But, you've displayed a complete lack of understanding of how college sports really works because it doesn't fit your narrative. Kind of like your whole "cartel" shtick. You're trolling and you know it. We all know it. You literally just admitted to touring your support for a summer wood-bat league team in your denial. Good grief. Besides whether your amateur team aspires to something doesn't mean jack. I can aspire to be an airline pilot but unless I put in the investment, I'm staying firmly planted to the ground. No matter what they aspire to, they're currently at the highest level they can be for an amateur side. Now they could join NISA or take a major gamble in the DOA NPSL-Pro but it doesn't look like they are. So quit complaining about it because the Tulsa Athleticals not playing pro soccer isn't the fault of USSF/MLS/USL/SUM/Your Dad, it's the level they're playing at. And I'm sure that like a lot of these intern-ball teams, they play lip service to pro/rel because a segment of their fanbase are pro/rel torchers so it makes sense to market to them. I'll willingly point out bad-faith arguments for pro/rel for the BS that they are. I'll also demand that if someone wants pro/rel, the burden of proof is on them to make a plan and so far...crickets. Yes, I'll point out the hypocricy of a Detroit City complaining about pro league standards and not paying their players while earning revenue off merch and their fieldhouse rentals. I'll also happily point out reasons why pro/rel is damn near unworkable here. You truthers are so sensitive. You're like the men's rights movement or young earth creationists. You don't want to hear anything that messes with your worldview and everyone who isn't vocally on your side is the enemy. I could get on here and whine about Chris Kessell blocking me on Twitter because I'm anti-pro/rel despite me never having interacted with him. I am better than you. I'm not an asshole. I'm pointing out that I watch soccer of all kinds from all around the world. When I can, I even watch LigaMX and NWSL which the truthers don't seem to realize exist. In a few weeks I'll be able to go to three professional soccer games in one of the smallest major markets in the country one of those games will be at a multi-million dollar academy. Soccer is thriving here and it's great. I've been waiting for this kind of environment since I first kicked a soccer ball in kindergarten in 1987. When I can't see games live, I have more access to the domestic game than at any other time in our history. Soccer is thriving and investment is pouring in all without pro/rel. We don't need it. It's completely unnecessary. That's not what this forum is for, Jeff. It's been explained to you dozens of times. If you want to have a pro/rel circlejerk stick to your cadre of sycophants on Twitter. When you make claims in public you need to expect to have them challenged. When you're challenged, you bitch and moan that the mods are mean and it's everyone else's fault but your own. Seriously. If this particular forum isn't working out for you, find another one. Good lord.
Coaches are bribed to recommend students. Students get in then don't participate in the sport (exactly what happened with Aunt Becky's kid). Has literally nothing to do with pro/rel or pro soccer. Is there corruption in college athletics? Yes. Absolutely. Is that a case for pro/rel? You're going to need Evel Knievel levels of skill to make that jump. But sure, focus on this one instance rather than the literally tens of thousands of kids who wouldn't get a college education but got the chance thanks to collegiate athletics.
I don't disagree that there are repeated problems in college sports, particularly at the revenue-producing level. I've been aware of those problems for more than 50 years. But I don't think this scandal is an example of them. It's an example of rich parents trying to distort college admissions in favor their kids.
How did I instigate? He popped up in my mentions ... Sure Jeff. The guy who didn't know anything about the state of things in MX and was undeniably shown that, tried to move the convo over to corruption when he was caught out, and then went to a homophobic slur because he couldn't keep his own shit straight .... Sure Jeff. Though you believing that to be "knowing a helluva lot more" does perfectly illustrate you. As with everything else that comes from you, nobody gives a damn ... at all. Mischaracterize, lie, make up tales, disregard facts, pretend any gives a shit about you personally ... Classic pro/rel torching bullshit
His 'arguments' against the points raised were almost entirely along the lines of: "You clearly don't know soccer. Jajajajaja!". The other guy kept alluding to some kind of experience, without explaining what it was or presenting any actual knowledge, let alone how it led him to his position. Compare and contrast to @CrazyJ628 who not only says "College athletics are my wheelhouse" but then presents information and relates it to his argument. PS. This is the thread where I first ran into the Lazio guy and the one that Ted spun off with a bunch of smearing RTs about me. Note that the actual arguments are being raised by the "side" that Jeff opposes: Please retweet this. MLS hates it. https://t.co/je4hzobMma— Ted Westervelt (@soccerreform) February 9, 2019