The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Yup, sell that to the Indian tribe whose territory and heritage is trampled on by the pipeline to Canada.

    They're not threats to EU preservation of soccer. Those are national matters and the UK tried as much as they could to do it their way.
    The Feyenoord Stadium has monument status, so our new stadium has to be built in another spot. Even if Feyenoord wanted to demolish it, they wouldnot get permission.
    To get monument status a building has to qualify for it. Simply being old isnot enough. The UK is notorious for their agency looking after heritage. I once watched a docu on a man (he was a famous actor or singer) who decided to buy a ruin of a castle that was crumbling down. The shit he had to endure from that agency was unbelievable by their demands on how things had to look like. The bloody thing would have been a pile of stones in a decade, but he wouldnot get permission to do anything if he didnot comply to their demands.
    So given the heritage culture in the UK I guess those stadiums didnot meet requirements.
     
  2. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
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  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes that's one good thing that you can say about Europeans, that throughout their age of empires they put native people's rights and heritage above everything else :rolleyes:

    The fact that the FA did nothing to preserve the Twin Towers is a bit disappointing.
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you pick out some demolished US that were of cultural value?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_closed_stadiums_by_capacity?wprov=sfla1

    The old Yankee Stadium had a better atmosphere than the new one but the seats were smaller so people were crammed together. The replacement drew on a lot of the history of the first, including the field dimensions and the placement of Monument Park, and even restored some of the features of the original stadium that had been removed or destroyed when the old stadium was modernized in the 1970s.

    The old Giants' Stadium was a concrete shithole as were many of the stadiums built in the 1960s and 1970s. The Oakland Colosseum won't be missed when it's gone but there was something unique about the wooden benches.
     
  5. That I agree with.
    Yanks/Trumpians are Europeans descend by a overwhelming majority, so it's continuation of a bad habit. But the point is that this pipeline happens in this time, not a hundred years ago.
     
  6. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was a very large factor.
     
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  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The pipeline is designed to go around native American lands rather than cross them, so I guess they paid some attention to indigenous rights.

    I think we need to get more off-topic.
     
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  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I feel you've left out a lot of variables that would help determine the likelihood of fisticuffs:
    1. Did this debate take place on a race day?
    2. Is the pub a freehouse or a brewery pub?
    3. How old is the oldest Pukka Pie in the freezer?
    4. How old is the newest?
    5. Was the carpet specifically chosen to mask beer vomit and/or blood stains?
    6. Is it a relatively warm, sunny day?
     
  9. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Careful. Remember, Ruffy is under consideration to be a moderator. Don't antagonize him.
     
  10. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    We like to think of it as relegating old buildings into non-existence. That way it's like winning a trophy if some old dump makes it for another year.
     
  11. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
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  12. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Verily, he is a black sheep among our family. Sorry about that.
     
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  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More embarrassing than having Stan Kroenke as owner and Osama Bin Laden among the faithful.
     
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  14. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    He makes me want to buy vegan sausage rolls.

    Apparently there's a movie on Netflix about the effects of watching his TV shows. "Bird Box" or something.
     
  15. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Gary Lineker's takedowns of Piers Morgan on Twitter are pretty funny.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So it's draft day today folks, y'all excited??

    Philadelphia sold their 5 draft selections to Fussball Cincinnati for $150,000, stating that the gap between college soccer and MLS was now too great for them to even bother.

    The interesting draft picks will be the Generation Adidas players, who get scholarships in return for quitting college soccer early, and immigrants, for whom soccer is a way of winning the right to live and work here.

    And there's a Red Bulls home-grown player in there. I'm not sure how that works.
     
  17. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Made me realize how little I know about the draft after looking up some info. I thought Morris was the only notable draft player I could think of in recent years and it turns out he wasn't even a part of it. Seems a bit like a throwback to a different time in the age of Atlanta United. Alongside New England's original logo in a sea of updated crests.
     
  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These days most of the best American players in college soccer are academy products -- even the ones from outside MLS cities, because of the increasing trend toward nationwide recruiting. The best of these players are siphoned off before the draft through Homegrown contracts.

    What this means: most of the American players in the draft pool have already been passed over by a MLS team that kept tabs on them for four years. For the most part, if they were top prospects, they wouldn't be available in the draft. This is both the reason drafted players have had less and less impact over the years and the reason the early draft picks have been increasingly foreign players.
     
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  19. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Damned skippy "I flat out stated it point blank."
    After you kept pushing and pushing and pushing...
    You consistently belittle and ridicule like nobody's business.

    I said what I said, I meant it, and I do not regret saying it.

    You're a known quantity: an obnoxious anti-Pro/Rel troll who has no place in any serious discussion about America moving towards a system of Pro/Rel... a move that would benefit places like San Antonio and Tampa and many others, btw.
     
  20. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Whichever pub where Blades fans hang out.

    On second thought, Crazy Joe would probably just be kidnapped and then summarily dropped off at another pub filled with Wednesday fans.
    What they do after that I wouldn't venture to say....

    [​IMG]
     
  21. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #18572 USRufnex, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    I'm still stunned that there is no place for the MAJORITY of American fans who want to see ProRel in this country to discuss it on Bigsoccer without being trolled endlessly by obnoxious anti-ProRel zealots.

    Is this a hill you want to die on?
    Is it a hill the Bigsoccer forum wants to die on?
    How many fans do you need to run off this forum before any of you people ever get it?

    There are some very vibrant conversations happening about how, when, why, where Pro/Rel should happen in this country. None of those conversations happen on Bigsoccer.

    Instead, we get endless status-quo obsessed anti-ProRel rabbit hole arguments against it ever happening by the scant twelve percent who may actually think Pro/Rel is outdated, a tiny minority of American soccer fandom who have ZERO INTEREST in the concept of ProRel.

    I can put people on IGNORE, but clearly the best strategy for posting in favor of ProRel on Bigsoccer is to inspire anti-ProRel zealots to put me on IGNORE. On twitter, you can mute or block obnoxious anti-ProRel twitter trolls like RealSnarkLake and AlamoCityFC and have an actual reasonably thoughtful discussion.

    You've said before that you think ProRel is nothing more than a gimmick.
    It's not. The lack of an open system affects my club and many many others in this country.

    You'd be the first person banned from the discussion if I were moderator. The same thing you did to me in the MLS subforum. The next two would be Crazy Joe and Hail to the King, who are KNOWN ANTI-PRO REL TROLLS on twitter.

    The subject of Promotion/Relegation in a subforum in Soccer in the USA would be and should be treated as a topic of shared interest, not one of shared derision.

    Eighteen years I spent on Bigsoccer thinking it represented a reasonably good cross section of American soccer fans.

    Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case for several years now.

    I don't want a major league/minor league setup in American pro soccer.
    The only people who seem to want that for our future are a buncha assholes on Bigsoccer and some folks from "major league" cities who think any market with less than a million in metro area population is a place for an MLS version of a "farm club."

    I'm betting by Page 1000 of this thread we'll still have the same old rabbit hole arguments against the idea.... going round and round in the same circles....

    Have a nice 2019.
     
  22. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    "KNOWN ANTI-PRO REL TROLL on twitter"

    It's like a wanted poster in the Old West. :laugh:
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Beacon NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread has included several constructive ideas on how pro-rel could work. You just choose to ignore them or dismiss them out of hand if they don't involve Tulsa Athletic getting to the top-flight.

    You dismiss any ideas that could happen within the current structure i.e. anything that involves MLS or USL, because of your animosity towards those organisations and yet you also dismiss the bottom up approach, let's say implementing it on the leagues whose business models you approve of.


    After your last series of posts there was a lag of 3 or 4 days before an anti pro/rel "troll" responded.

    In that time there were a number of posts asking for clarification of your proposals, or ideas on how you would address a number of hurdles to which you didn't respond.

    So:

    How would you go about implementing promotion and relegation in the US?

    Would you protect existing MLS and USL owners' investments, and if so how?
     
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  24. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    That escalated quickly.
    I mean, that got out of hand really fast.
     
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