The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    What Canadian league could TFC II play in that's the general equivalent of USL 1?

    MLS is at a much higher level, financially, than CPL, which has its sights set much closer to the USL Championship level. CONCACAF's argument is that Ottawa now has a domestic league that befits their station so there is no more need for an exemption to play in the US.
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They could play at the same level as they did this year.
     
  3. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    What do you mean?
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    TFC played in the USL Eastern Conference in 2018.
     
  5. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    CPL isn't considering reserve teams, understandably. I figure this is at least part of the reason they moved to League 1.
     
  6. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CPL is Canada's Division 1 league. MLS is the US's Division 1 league. So going by the cristeria that Victor used to deny Ottawa Fury FC's request, he should be denying Montreal, Vancouver and Toronto's requests as well. The financial status/clout/ambitions of a league has no bearing on sanctioning.

    Now, the fact that the sponsors, media partners & lawyers for Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto, MLS, media partners and sponsors are likely more powerful then the CSA's, is a big deterrent. At the least it makes Victor take a longer pause to think things over before going down that legal road. Ottawa Fury FC doesn't have the clout that the above has, so they're an easier target.

    I see where Victor M is coming from. He wants & needs the CPL to be successful. In order for it to be a success the CPL needs to be in Canada's largest markets. A lot of folks are going to be losing money on the CPL (just like MLS for the past 20+ years).

    I see where Ottawa Fury FC are coming from too. They don't want to move into a league that is fledgling, and may not last. They also want to be sure of what they're getting into. They already suffered through being a part of the NASL. The USL gave them stability and a path forward to a sustainable future as a pro club. They don't want to be forced to be a part of the CPL. They want to be able to make that choice based on sound business facts.

    It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in court (if it gets that far).
     
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are also 5 Canadian clubs in USL League 2.
     
  8. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I don't think you can realistically compare each country's D1 as equivalent. That would be like telling Cardiff City and Swansea that they have to compete in the Welsh Premier League, which is technically the FA's division one, but isn't even Football League standards.
     
    Robert Borden repped this.
  9. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    All of the Ontario based ones except Thunder Bay were forced to move to L1O. @Robert Borden might be able to explain why Thunder Bay was an exception.

    The others are in provinces without a functional equivalent.
     
  10. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I don't think it can go to court, honestly. Ottawa knew the conditions of their exemptions.
     
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  11. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great.............Beetlejuice will take over the place soon..............
     
  12. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    How? Hypothetically, they'd be subjected to a salary cap

    The disparity between Year 1 CPL and over 20 years of MLS means that the 3 CDN clubs would qualify for FIFA exemption clause. Ottawa Fury doesn't with the launch of CPL.

    That's simple
     
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  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #18313 Robert Borden, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
    The 3 teams and MLS itself would disagree with you.

    Something the simplest explanation is the right one. The disparity between year 1 CPL and MLS is too big. The 3 clubs easily qualify for FIFA exemption clause.

    Sponsors, lawyers, and what not has nothing to do with it

    CPL wants to be in every Canadian markets, true. However, USL & MLS or not, CPL will be in every major markets regardless.
    1. York 9 and Forge are in the Greater Toronto Area along with TFC but York 9 will be playing in the city of Toronto the first 3 years.
    2. Pacific FC counts as part of the Metro Vancouver media zone although they are located on Vancouver Island. Surrey almost happened which is on the mainland next to Vancouver (city) but Victoria and Surrey merged their bids to go on Vancouver Island as Pacific FC. The league is planning for Surrey and a group from Kelowna approached the league.
    3. An announcement about Laval getting a CPL club for 2020 is imminent. It's the 2nd biggest city in Montreal Metropolitain and just like Montreal, also an Island with subway access.
    Ottawa wouldn't be any different. Fury or not, CPL was coming to the National Capital Region.

    They dont have a lot of sympathy among Canadian fans because as early as 2017, the CSA told them that they wouldn't be able to stay in USL once CPL started. The president of the Ottawa Fury was at that meeting. They went in USL anyways.

    FC Edmonton decided to not join USL after exiting NASL becasue they had no interest in the league and also knew what would happen. This is really on the Fury.

    Consensus so far is they might play in 2019 in USL but after that, they play in a Canadian league (CPL or League 1 Ontario) or they are done.

    Some speculations say that OSEG did this on purpose knowing what would happen so they could get out of the soccer business without looking as the villains to their fans. That's a great way to not negatively impact the CFL part of the business. Just scream that CONCACAF killed the team and focus on football.

    They are losing money in USL
     
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  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think travel costs had a lot to do with it. It's so far north that flying makes the only sense. I'm guessing League 1 Ontario was happy to not get stuck dealing with those travel costs.

    However, due to the purchase of the league by CPL, this could change. Dino Rossi, L1O commissioner said that this acquisition would help L1O significantly upgrade it's operations. They might get to a point where Thunder Bay travel costs issue might be resolved and that would force them out of PDL.

    CPL also said that they are looking at launching D3 leagues across Canada. If this happens, this will cause all teams to get pulled out of PDL by the provincial bodies
     
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  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CSA was good with Ottawa staying in USL, and even made an agreement with USL for Ottawa to be able to give the league a 6 month, rather than a year's, notice to move to the CPL. This was, again, CONCACAF stepping in before CSA and USSF went to them.
    Most lower division, and many top division pro sports teams are losing money. Teams in the EPL, Bundesliga, NFL, NBA (some teams still lose money) and NHL are the exceptions, not the norm.

    On another note. You're way more familiar with Davies' move to Bayern then us here south of the border. Does his contract have a clause in it guaranteeing first team minutes? Someone is floating that on another board. It sounds unbelievable, but in this day and age you never know.
     
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  16. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CONCACAF always had the last say in sanctioning matters. If you read the statement, it started with the Fury making unilateral public statements about playing in USL without prior approval to do so. CONCACAF immediately let know the CSA of it's concern on the situation.

    All parties involved knew ahead of time that CONCACAF wasn't going to approve this. The Fury were told by the CSA in 2017 about what would happen once the CPL launch, which is a big reason why FC Edmonton didn't join USL.

    Ultimately, the confederation is enforcing FIFA rules and the rule is clear, the exceptional circumstances allowing a club to play in another country league does not apply to Ottawa and the USL. That's why legal battles are destined to fail here.

    I know local media here doesn't necessarily reach the US but the Fury have been acting like the second coming of TFC which has been met by lots of "I've never heard of these guys" around the country. They're attitude has been quite distasteful since September in the media and social media.

    That's highly unlikely in my opinion and I haven't heard of anything like that.
     
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  17. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's gets cheaper than that in Philadelphia. In the city and suburbs, I ride subways, buses and trains free 24/7 because I'm a geriatric Philadelphia-area citizen.
     
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  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My parents live in a Conservative county in England surrounded by Labour councils.

    On outbound trips they buy tickets to the first stop outside of their county from where they can travel for free.

    Return trips are free if they ask the driver for a ticket.
     
  19. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    If you're referring to the senior citizen free bus pass, isn't that available in all English counties?
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When did that happen?

    My information appears to be outdated.:oops:
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Maybe you should talk to your parents more. :p
     
  22. :D
    I'm a geriatric pensionado that sleeps until 8, takes breakfast and shower and then it's 9:00 o'clock.
    So, not much of a loss:)
     
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  23. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    #18323 Dan Loney, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2018
    So, you know has brought up the Deloitte report?

    Nobody.

    Because they're embarrassed by it.

    You're welcome.
     
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  24. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Shutup Fonzi.
    You're wrong.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. USRufnex

    USRufnex Red Card

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Dude.

    Bigsoccer's anti-Pro/Rel shtick has been wearing thin for several years now, which is why y'all don't have a decent cross section of American soccer fans posting on your forum anymore....

    What's changed in the past 5-10 years on this forum?

    Same tired mods moderating the same tired forums.
    A Bigsoccer blog that seems to have inexplicably become the personal property of known anti-Pro/Rel BS blogger and twitter troll Dan Loney.

    If there was a mod (or... gasp... multiple mods?!?) who has a certain amount of enthusiasm towards the shared interest the majority of American fans have for Promotion Relegation in this country, I'd for sure patronize that subforum, rather than continue to piss in the wind on a thread routinely trolled by ProRel haters and dominated by MLS apologist English ex-pats.

    Bigsoccer has a well earned bad reputation among those of us American soccer fans who want to see Pro/Rel in the United States of America.

    Tell me, which bigsoccer poster in enthusiastic favor of ProRel for the United States of America is a current moderator and, if that mythical figure does indeed exist, why aren't they posting on the blog..................

    [​IMG]
     

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