Yes I saw it on Twitter. Unfortunately within 5 years they were down from 19 teams to 7, 2 of them Canadian.
yes sometimes expansion means reduction in attendance numbers, by this point I mean you need to have a strong second division first so that lower-tier clubs could develop their own fan base ahd when they got promoted they will bring positive changes to the League. not only for attendance numbers but also competiveness like what happend in J-League and CSL,expansion teams are from second tier, not just organise a new club come from nowhere. Meanwhile when K-League introduce second level in 2013, as there is not enough clubs they have to relegate teams from top level, the average attendance then drops a lot.and the League has a lot of trouble in commercial. K-League Average attdance by year 1983 10,493 professional League starts with 5 clubs,2 professional and 3 ameturish clubs, under Official name of Korean Super League (KSL) 1984 4,093 expanded to 8 clubs,6 professional and 2 ameturish clubs. 1985 5,393 1986 3,500 reduced to 6 clubs, 5 professional and 1 ameturish clubs, rename as Korea Professional Football League (KPFL) 1987 3,233 reduced to 5, fully professional 1988 3,757 1989 4,128 expanded to 6 1990 4,211 1991 9,871 1992 11,553 1993 8,532 1994 7,152 expanded to 7 1995 10,258 expanded to 8 1996 10,388 expanded to 9 1997 6,731 expandd to 10 1998 11,780 renamed as K-League 1999 14,413 2000 10,052 2001 12,745 2002 14,600 2003 9,800 expanded to 12 2004 11,941 expanded to 13 2005 11,258 2006 10,339 expanded to 14 2007 11,786 2008 12,901 2009 11,226 expanded to 15 2010 10,941 2011 11,634 expanded to 16 2012 7,045 relegation introduced, two K-League clubs relagated to K2 2013 7,652 reduced to 14 clubs, K2 League started pro/rel started 2014 7,932 reduced to 12 clubs 2015 7,720 2016 7,873 2017 6,505 J1-League Average attendance by year 1993 17,976 professional League started with 10 clubs 1994 19,598 expanded to 12, new teams are promoted from JFL 1995 16,922 expanded to 14 1996 13,353 expanded to 16 1997 10,131 expended to 17 1998 11,982 expanded to 18 1999 11,658 reduced to 16, JFL becomed professional and rebanded as J2, relegation from J1 starts 2000 11,065 2001 16,548 2002 16,368 2003 17,351 2004 18,965 2005 18,765 expanded to 18 2006 18,292 2007 19,066 2008 19,202 2009 18,985 2010 18,428 2011 15,797 2012 17,566 2013 17,226 2014 17,240 2015 17,803 2016 17,968 2017 18,883 CSL Average attendance by year 1992 17,429 Jia-A last edition of Semi-Pro season, 8 clubs 1993 no League, clubs rebanded to realise professionalism 1994 16,326 first professional season of Jia-A and Jia-B, Jia-A expanded to 12 clubs, with 4 teams promoted from Jia-B 1995 23,790 1996 24,266 1997 21,220 1998 21,335 Expanded to 14 1999 19,909 2000 19,901 2001 18,296 pro/rel cacelled 2002 14,984 expanded to 15 2003 17,710 2004 10,838 reduced to 12 and rebanded as CSL 2005 10,284 expanded to 14 2006 10,611 expanded to 15 pro/rel resumed 2007 15,112 2008 13,444 expanded to 16 2009 16,059 2010 14,581 2011 17,651 2012 18,740 2013 18,571 2014 18,986 2015 22,193 2016 24,159 2017 23,766 announced expansion plan, will expand to 18 clubs by 2022
A common recent thread raised on twitter is the "disenfranchisement" of communities. Now while this has been placed hand-in-hand by some advocates as an institutional prejudice on MLS/USSF's part, I don't want to discuss that element. I personally find that to be an odious piece of politicking, designed to cast the closed system as something dark and nefarious. However, there is an argument to be had that a club born out of a particular community, that may otherwise be able to organically progress and grow, could be prevented from doing so under the current system. Perhaps the locale is deemed too small or the ownership group doesn't meet a divisional requirement due to financial background. I of course see arguments for and against, but I'd like to get the views of the posters on this forum before presenting them in length.
It's always amusing when certain pro/rel advocates claim that the fight for pro/rel is some variety of civil rights fight and about inclusiveness, then they go on racist or sexist rants. That's not particularly helpful to their cause..
Ironically, most leagues across the world have minimum financial requirements that must be met to be in them. In addition to infrastructure requirements as well. How quickly those in favor of Pro/Rel forget about Parma, Rangers, and Portsmouth.....
No, it muddies the waters. I don't think anyone has ever been persuaded to change their opinion due to their opposite number presenting themselves as the debate's equivalent of MLK. In any case, the "community" argument I'm interested in discussing is less ethnicity- or even necessarily culture-based and more locale or neighbourhood. Take Eibar for example. The year they got promoted, they almost had that reversed into a relegation due to financial issues. The community banded together and raised the funds needed to meet the requirement. That type of community outreach would likely not be rewarded here. Then again, Eibar plays 45 minutes from Bilbao so in an NFL style sports environment, the residents would likely support the team in that city. So a heartwarming tale. The question is, how truly important are these things in terms of sports?
In the context of US sports culture, there hasn't been much interest in supporting professional sports on a neighborhood or sub-city level (maybe the Cubs/White Sox and Devils/Rangers/Islanders as exceptions), at least not since the Dodgers and Giants left NYC. Americans have, traditionally, been more mobile than our European cousins. A team marketing itself as the team for people from, say, Northern Virginia, isn't going to get much traction, since residents of that area don't have a strong tie to it. Our allegiances tend to be connected to a larger area. High school and college sports allegiances are different, but those aren't really part of the conversation in US soccer.
England is not completely immune to that kind of thing. When Newton Heath L&YR FC had financial troubles in 1902 and was about to disappear it was reborn when a new group of local investors took over. Those investors changed the name of the club to Manchester United to attempt to broaden the appeal of the team outside of their local neighborhood of Newton Heath. They got the idea from a neighboring team. Manchester City had done the same thing a few years earlier. Founded as St. Mark's (West Gorton), part of a social outreach by a church in the neighborhood of West Gorton, the club changed its name to West Gorton Athletic as it moved away from its connection to the church, then to Ardwick AFC as they started to draw players and fans from the larger Ardwick district of the city. Financial troubles in 1893-4 led to reorganization and an attempt to expand their base by changing the club name to Manchester City.
Technically, Newton Heath had already moved to Bank Street in Clayton by that point, but they're 2 miles apart so I'm nitpicking a little. I don't know if this is urban legend or not, but it has been said that after moving from their first ground, the name "Newton Heath" had caused a couple of visiting teams difficulties in finding the stadium.
Not sure what your point is here. Both Parma and Rangers went bankrupt and thus ceased to exist. Replacement teams started in Serie D and whatever the then lowest level of the Scottish pro pyramid was. Portsmouth were relegated three times, with a more recent promotion back to League One.
Oh,I am sorry. Perhaps Empoli and Sassuolo having to play their "Home" games in Serie A in stadiums other then their home ground because their home doesn't meet the league's standards would have been a better example??? Or maybe Eibar who was going to be denied promotion due to financial reasons before their fans raised the money to make up the difference? The point is that ALL pro leagues have standards that need to be met. Perhaps if you could get past trying to convince everyone that SUM/MLS/USSF is all one in the same and some evil conflicted entity that is keeping money from the game you would have seen this...........
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be standards. The problem here is the intricate weavings of SUM and MLS and USSF. When I watch the USMNT and USWNT on TV, I shouldn't wonder whether any of that money trickles down to the rest of us, and I shouldn't have to wonder if how much money is funneled into an MLS that demands more billionaires as a requirement for entry.
I did say "certain". Unfortunately for you, it is also the most vocal of the twitter pro/rel advocates.
Ted and a handful of others may, more often than not, be "over the top" in my view, but I think the charges of racism are usually taken out of context, and part-and-parcel of a bogus partisan witch-hunt and cynical game of anti-Pro/Rel-"gotcha" that's been going on for years, especially on BigSoccer. See also Eric Wynalda.
Since Motorik FC was brought up and the word authentic and organic was brought up at some point in this thread, I get the impression that this new club is not quite authentic. They are presenting (marketing) themselves as some sort or fringe element of society. "If any of our beloved @MotorikFC rabble wish to get in on the carpool to make the trek..." is a quote from a tweet, emphasis mine, showing that they are rabble. They want to "partner" with a European Club. The list they were choosing from including Red Star FC, a club, according to Wikipedia, whose fans are "Overtly antifascists,[11] most of the fans are left-wing,[2][12]and the club identifies itself as a banlieue working-class club.". St. Pauli FC, St. Pauli enjoys a certain fame for the left-leaning character of its supporters: most of the team's fans regard themselves as anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-homophobic and anti-sexist, and this has on occasion brought them into conflict with neo-Nazis and hooligans at away games.(Wikipedia). AS Livorno whose "supporters are well known for their left-wing politics which often spark fiercely violent clashes with opposing right-wing supporter groups, especially those of Lazio, Inter Milan and Verona." It appears that they are trying to cultivate an identity rather than let it grow out organicly. It appears that they are out fight society and are trying to use pro/rel to show how oppressed they are. It seems fake to me.
Yeah, I can see that. A quick perusal of their Twitter and I see them self-described as "a rabble of snot-nosed gutter urchins." Okay, fair enough. Fight the power and all that, I'm okay with that. But the uppermost tier of Euro pro/rel is home to clubs that are billion dollar enterprises, clearly interested in global brand extension and hawking $90 dollar shirts to as many people as possible. Funny how arguments and causes can become jumbled. I'm similarly amused by that set of U.S. fans who rage at any and all alleged signs of nativism infecting the NT program, and then go on to rage at MLS for valuing foreign talent over domestic development.
There is no “out of context” when you attack someone of Indian descent by saying they support the current system because they are used to a caste system. There is no “out of context” when you attack a black woman for having “nappy hair”. There is no “out of context” when you question the immigration status of Hispanic parents of kids you are coaching.. There is no “out of context” when you call a woman a “bitch” and tell them they are being a “pussy” when they tell you it isn’t okay to compare a league structure to rape... There is no “out of context” when you excuse someone for making racist or sexist comments just because they are being dogpiled. Just to give you a hint, look around at your group. If it is majority cisgender, white, straight males, whose leaders make racist and sexist attacks based on the race and gender of your “opponents”, you aren’t participating in a civil rights movement. Civil rights movements will ALWAYS be lead by the impacted groups.
You're twisting yourself into a pretzel there, Kinznk. Ken seems like a pretty nice guy who's loved lower division soccer for years. He requested to be on my original email list in 2013 for the new supporters group for Tulsa Athletics despite never having lived here. He was the administrator for an NPSL South Conference facebook page in 2013, despite not living anywhere near any of the teams in the South Conference. He models what he's trying to do on what succeeded for Chattanooga FC and Detroit City of the NPSL... I had no idea the guy had strong feelings about Pro/Rel, but assume that if he didn't, then you wouldn't have had anything bad to say about him. But, because he wants Pro/Rel in the USA, you couldn't help yourself but to try to attack his character and smear the dream he wants to chase. Shame on you. @bigredfutbol here's the guy's interview from yesterday and it seems like he'd be worth giving a shot... Soccer Soup By snelson3@umbc.edu (Sam Nelson) Also..... go bugeaters.... Shoutout @bugeatersfc for the usual gear exchange. You know...coupla shirts...few stickers....club pin...AND A FUCKING SAMURAI SWORD!!! 😂😂😂 Heads up 2018! #TTID #918 pic.twitter.com/v00wg2lb1U— Sonny Dalesandro (@SonnyDalesandro) February 23, 2018 I want #ProRelForUSA because I want clubs who can persevere and reach the top division based on merit, not business metrics. pic.twitter.com/QBG62LN6tB— Mitch 💙💙🖤💙 (@MDLaw_) February 22, 2018
I wanted to expose you for the anti-Pro/Rel lunatic you are. Ken Tebo is a decent human being. Sadly, I cannot say the same thing about you. I've asked myself several times why a decent person would ever throw such explosive tirades and engage in profanity-laced hissy fits just because Kartik K. would dare have a discussion with Ted about Promotion/Relegation. My conclusion? No decent person ever would. I'd never considered the role methamphetamines would play in being able to summon the energy to twitter spam someone, Dan. I mean, all I could come up with on my own would be a repeated cut-and-paste of, "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog." But you, sir... I mean, the way you arbitrarily arranged hundreds of words, phrases and sentences in such a way as to completely bury a twitter conservation and debate you were clearly losing. That is quite the talent. Forgive me for mistaking your twitter spamming talent as something that is drug induced. #ProRelForUSA
When I say rarely, I mean off color remarks, not anything resembling the over-the-top sexist and racist accusations you're clearly parroting from bigsoccer's usual suspects. Ted's Pro/Rel civil rights comparison (including quotes from MLK) which you and other anti-Pro/Rel people regularly use to attempt to beat Pro/Rel people over the heads with is nothing more than a tempest in a tea pot. I respect a lot of what he says, strongly disagree with some of what he says, and am once in a blue moon alarmed by some of what he says. But, once again, Ted is not my leader. In fact, it is a needle-in-a-haystack rarity that I read anyone posting on the hashtag #ProRelForUSA who considers Ted their "leader." But, like Dan Loney, you build Ted up to be "our" leader, so you can tear us down. That's a pretty cynical strategy, in my book.
Just a tip.. If you’re going to claim your movement is about inclusiveness, don’t normalize sexist and racist remarks as “off color” simply because the person making them happens to agree with your movement’s position.
In a movement of true inclusiveness, the outspoken are not summarily demonized and sacrificed on the altar of political correctness. Actions speak louder than overheated rhetoric and random hyperbole.