The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

The problem is that instead of realizing that the growth of soccer is dependent on development of soccer in all areas, MLS decided that it would be located in certain areas.

While this works in the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL the MLS doesn’t have access to 99.9% of the world’s talent. That’s why a single entity league will limit growth and will ultimately fail.

Had MLS been smart they would have worked with USSF at the beginning and said we have a plan for a multi tiered league set up but we’re going to do what the pro/rel set-ups do and put in minimum requirements for promotion and for the associated leagues. Therefore the potential for promotion/relegation would exist but it would not be available until there was the appropriate financial stability in place.

Now absent that plan none of the owners want pro-rel and we’re seeing abuse by the league, which is turning even more people off to MLS.

 

Turning people off in terms of bigger attendances and TV audiences?

 

What on earth do you mean by MLS doesn't have access to 99.9% of the world's talent? Are soccer players banned from the US/Can for some reason?

MLS has access to 100% of all the pro players in the world - just like the NBA and NHL. That's why the growth since 2001 has been phenomenal. And I think people that are still predicting Single Entity MLS to fail are cute.

 

Firstly, development of professional athletes does not correlate directly to development of professional sports fans. I'd wager that a majority of NFL fans have never played a down of organized football in their lives. I'd wager that similar is true of the other top 4 pro sports leagues in this country. Personally I had never watched, much less played, a single minute of soccer in my life until I turned 32. I've since watched tens of thousands of minutes of professional soccer in several leagues.

Since I began watching MLS ten years ago the league has grown by every conceivable measurable metric: number of teams, total number of fans, average number of fans, value of media rights, value of sponsorship rights, players salaries...

I'm genuinely curious what you think will happen going forward that will cause the league's failure.

 

Sorry, but that has got to be one of the most naively obtuse posts I've ever read.

When would a USSF who has been, at the very least, manipulated by MLS; and at the most, overwhelmingly controlled by MLS, ever certify a new league as a co-D1 alongside MLS?

 

If he's arguing "if pro/rel is the obviously superior system" that anyone can start a rival league, it's yet another strawman from your side, Red.

Silva obviously has the money to start such a league from scratch, but he didn't. Not because single entity MLS is a "superior system," but because MLS has a 20 year head start and is already entrenched with SUM and (in bed with?) the USSF bureaucracy.

The NASL moved from a goal (pre-Cosmos/Peterson) of being the strongest D2 it could be and a financial improvement over Marcos's USL-1... to a league telling potential owners of its intent to be to MLS what the AFL and ABA had been to the NFL and NBA respectively.... gotta get to work, then 3 hours of rehearsal after an 8 hour day, otherwise would write more....

Three years ago today marks my change of heart in favor of Pro/Rel for this country....

https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/the-case-for-pro-rel.2009269/page-74#post-31523872

We’re by no means, in any form, eurosnobs. But it’s really jarring to go from watching EPL & SerieA matches to watching this sloppy, choppy MLS Final

— The Red Watch (@theredwatchlr) December 9, 2017

 

Because by their own words, they are obligated to grant that designation to any league that meets the criteria.

MLS can "manipulate" and "control" all it wants, but good luck winning that antitrust lawsuit if a league meets D1 criteria and USSF fails to grant it.

And before we get into the "moving goalposts" argumnent, if USSF changes any such requirement, existing leagues have a 3 year grace period to comply.

All of which ignores the USSF bending over backwards to save the league that openly and aggressively claimed to aim to compete with MLS, when they could have stood by and watched it collapse under its own incompetence.

Before "giving them enough rope" is alleged, I'll ask; to what end?

In the areas where MLS and USSF are shitty about things, they often barely pay lip service to giving a toss. Yet they need to make sure that they're seen to aid an MLS rival by literally going out of their way to prevent an organic and deserved demise? When the well-run outfits can still find a place in the MLS-affiliated USL or the semi-pro leagues?

There's no evidence that D1 wouldn't be granted where warranted.

 

Depends on who you're asking.
Think about that for a minute and let it sink in.

 

It is for the professional sport as a whole. For a major league? Almost certainly not; it's far easier to make money when allowed to operate as an effective cartel. Therein lies the rub.

And, as has been discussed on here before, the USSF's current divisional requirements effectively assume a closed league model.

 

This is entirely fair. The USSF criteria doesn't even address the prospect of what would occur if MLS split into two hierarchical divisions. Would the MLS Second Division be allowed to admit clubs that only meet current D2 standards, without them being counted against (and potentially detracting from) MLS's meeting criteria for D1 status? Would they be required to institute MLS Division 2 as an actual separate D2?

With that said, USSF would probably just introduce criteria when the scenario arose, so I doubt it would be a serious problem.

Regardless, it's ridiculous for the governing body of a sport to operate so re-actively, especially as pro/rel is at the very least, a common approach to the sport they oversee.

 

I'm not sure that's so big a deal. USL has stated plans to operate at both D2 and D3 levels in the near future. The assumption everyone seems to be working from is that it would be treated as two separate leagues.

 

I doubt that.

 

Agreed and like I said, I think USSF will cross that bridge when they come to it. @M is correct though... the rules for designating league status are written with closed leagues assumed.

From what I've seen of the USSF (and to a point, MLS), it feels like they either lack the willingness or aptitude to plan things out.

Just look at the "Designated Player" rule. It baffles me that they literally had to wait for David Beckham to express serious interest, to get around to making a provision in the cap rules, so clubs could make a transformational superstar signing if available.

But it feels more lackadaisical than nefarious (wow, I totally wouldn't word it like that in real life).

 

First, that was an MLS rule, not a USSF rule. Second, MLS already had several high pay players on their rosters at the time that Beckham was signed. Donovan, Ruiz, and Eddie Johnson were all grandfathered into the rule. Third, in the early years, MLS's sponsors would sometimes throw in money to help pay for certain players. Fourth, prior to Beckham, MLS was more worried about surviving the current season than bringing in transformational players like Beckham.

 

I may be mistaken but I feel in many who want single-entity to remain want that because they live in fear of their club being relegated. Perhaps also there is the crowd who say "this is the way it's always been done in the U.S." i.e. the NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA paradigm when dealing with soccer in the U.S. The rest of the world is doing soccer incorrectly I guess........

 

It’s not a matter of the rest of the world doing anything wrong. It’s more that people don’t see a need for it..

I’d also counter your comment with that it has been my observation that people in favor of pro/rel in this country think pro/rel is somehow an integral part of soccer and that it can’t succeed without it. There also is a strong belief that It is magic sauce that will cure all that ails the sport in this country.

 

That goes more towards the US's infatuation with the bottom line. The MLS (as well as the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB) are extremely well run from a financial aspect. Whereas most footballing clubs around the globe suffer financial losses year in and year out. With the current setup of Professional Football in America teams in the MLS have no incentive to relinquish their status in the highest division. What incentive do they have to instill a pro/rel system?

 

It isn't a magical cure that will lead to a higher quality product, but it will allow for a new influx of talent to be shown on the National level. It also prevents teams from not maximizing their salary cap (which is for a different discussion, because the concept doesn't work in the footballing world) and putting profit margins over the on-field product. Its easy to sit back and be mediocre. More money leads to potentially better results, whereas sitting and doing nothing guarantees mediocrity or worse.