The agenda of the left

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    There has always been a shortage of Futbol referees. It's a very rewarding endeavor as you are constantly reminded by fans and players alike of your ancestry. The pay is great also...$30 for a 60 mile r/t that goes to cover expenses like uniforms, dues, and travel. Food is usually covered by catching any fruit coming at you. I loved every minute! :coffee:
     
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  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    In more than one way we’re not doing evolution a favor by keeping so many people alive. Can we create a vaccine shortage in certain zip codes?

    And you get the President’s full support!!!
     
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  3. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Jeffrey Epstein.
     
  4. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    #804 Chicago76, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
    The birthrate globally isn't the big issue anymore though. The Americas and Europe in aggregate are below replacement. Oceania+East and Southeast Asia too. Even India isn't that far above replacement (2.3 or so, which might actually only be replacement with their mortality rates). Population growth in excess of replacement is more or less limited to MENA, Sub Saharan Africa and Central Asia and it's dropping rapidly in those regions too.

    Population increases now are down to the fact that fertility rates were so high 20-30-40 years ago. Even if there was no mortality until 80, there would be a lot more 30 year olds than 60 year olds in the world because of fertility rates 30 years ago. So thirty years down the road, the number of 60 year olds will dwarf the current number. All of the growth is occurring on the back end. In 2100, demographers are forecasting fewer births per year than we are experiencing now, but the population will climb another 3-4 billion in the next 80 years.

    Growth at this point is pre-ordained until the people who were born during the high fertility period are gone. Dropping birth rates now another 0.5 kids per woman would have an effect eventually but that won't really contract the labor market for another 25-30 years it won't appreciably reduce global population for another 30 years after that.
     
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  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...rats-sanders-warren-buttigieg-power-socialism

    Terrific article. It puts into relatively few words some disparate thoughts we’ve all had bouncing around our heads.

    The GOPs, today, represent unfettered capitalism. But that system has as its one and only economic goal an increase in GDP. Distribution is irrelevant. “Happiness” is irrelevant. Innovation is irrelevant.

    Bernie has an antidote, albeit in a world context a fairly mild form of it. He proposes socialism. If we have a problem of too much power in the hands of big business, the answer is socialism. (I call it mild because so far as I know, he only is proposing socialism for health care. It’s a huge part of our economy, but just one part. He’s not proposing nationalizing the auto industry.)

    The article goes back to Galbraith from the 1950s and argues that what is needed is “countervailing” power to fight on behalf of the 99% against increasing corporate power.

    I was immediately drawn to the argument because I’ve been saying here off and on that a leftist agenda has to include labor empowerment and union empowerment. the US Chamber of Commerce enshrined, formally, a goal of killing unions in the early 1970s and they’ve been successful. And that’s why there is so little infrastructure for the left’s economic agenda. Unions used to do that but they can’t anymore.
     
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  6. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    I'm mostly pro-union. But I don't think most people will have jobs per se in 20 years...I think most people will be freelance workers. I don't know how a union functions in that environment.
     
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  7. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Freelance, gig, or contract?
    And there are a lot of jobs where unions can be part. Auto, education, banking and all the lower wage workers. There will still be plenty of places to keep unions around.
     
  8. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    The problem is that mgmt and unions never ever bargain in good faith. Union wants a 5% raise so they ask for 10%. Mgmt is willing to give 5% but thy offer 2%. Strike lasts 6 Mos til they settle on 5%. Win/win!! :rolleyes:
     
  9. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    The problem is a union has a purpose. And then when they've filled that purpose they don't dissolve, but rather continue into perpetuity, leeching off both members and employers. Union leaders are a lot like lawyers and politicians in that regard.
     
  10. LastBoyscout

    LastBoyscout Member+

    Mar 6, 2013
    Yeah because forming a new union every few years when inflation has eaten up your last pay raise and you need to bargain with the employer again is such a good system. Get real man. :rolleyes:
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    The old 19th century capitalism/socialism paradigm is breaking down. These labels are virtually meaningless now. If you look at Republicans, they're in bed with the industries that are most reliant on government "socialism" ... i.e. defense industry, energy and banking. Some of the strongest capitalist entrepreneurial energy in the country today is in uber liberal cities like San Francisco and Seattle. Another way in which the paradigm is breaking down is that the most anti socialist states in the country also happen to be the biggest "takers" of the federal budget. Add to that the Trump element, and now the right wing is suddenly the trade war party. Seems to me like our society is evolving in ways where Karl Marx's vocabulary no longer adequately describes our reality.

    Another factor to consider is China. In as much as we want to remain competitive with China, is breaking up or hamstringing our biggest companies really the best way? I dunno ... it's debatable. There's definitely some pros and cons.

    As much as I like the idea of unions, I'm with @Q*bert Jones III. I'm not even sure if the concept of "jobs" as we know them will be around in 20 years. I heard some data recently that 90% of the new jobs created post recession were part time/gig/freelance jobs. Another fact to look at is that our labor participation rate is at record low. And finally, one last factoid piece of data I find interesting is that about 66% of the people that do work don't like what they do.

    Which circles back to the issue of automation/AI. Obviously America's companies don't need us the way they needed us in the glory days of unions. Frankly us workers don't have the leverage. This is where the idea of UBI comes in as something new that is neither capitalist or socialist. In one sense it's a capitalist idea because it's being paid for by a handful of massive capitalist corporations. Essentially the country becomes a corporate conglomerate, and each citizen is a shareholder. In another sense it is socialism because you're getting a handout. But isn't this the whole reason we invented robots? Wasn't the whole point so we can get more shit done without having to work so hard?

    Maybe the answer is for us to lose this whole concept of a "job". Jobs are a relatively modern invention that was created during the industrial revolution. We did just fine as a species for 250,000 years without "jobs". Before jobs most of us had a profession or a trade. And most of us were a lot more self reliant. Who's to say that the job era is the final destination of human evolution? I think the population is slowly catching on, which is why you're seeing the record low labor participation.

    I'm seeing more and more 25 year olds going into semi retirement ... bartend for a year, save up, go teach English in Thailand for awhile, come back and hike the Appalachian Trail, more to Austin to play in an indie rock band, meet a cute hippie chick that gets you into urban farming, sell raw honey at the farmers market, break up with hippie chick, move back with parents to help with dad who has Alzheimers, start playing around with dad's woodworking tools, start handcrafting pipes and selling them online, get back together with band for a reunion tour etc ... etc ... Seems like a perfectly reasonable path for me in the richest country in human history. Why should we be slaving away for minimum wage job at Walmart that a robot can do twice as fast for half the price?
     
  13. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Wait a second...is this the plot for the re-make of Reality Bites?
     
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  14. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Three things:

    1. If you think capitalism is about a leveled playing ground, you've missed the last 3 centuries of history. Capitalism is about tilting the field as much as possible and concentrate profits while socializing loses.

    2. Automation is indeed the job killer and as you mentioned, UBI, universal healthcare and a better social net is a must if we want people to thrive instead of becoming corporate slaves. That's why we are fighting in the long term.

    3. The reason we can't achieve that, is not because people is not getting a grasp of a new "jobless" future, but because corporations and the politicians that they buy sponsor are trying to make the transition into a more even society as difficult as they can. "******** you all rubes with all your demands for fair pay and healthcare! If you are earning too little I ain't no paying for you to go and milk cats and find empathy in WV!"
     
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  15. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar

    The thing is that we live in a free and democratic society (somewhat). There is nothing stopping us from fixing this and putting us on a better course, except our own stupidity.

    But I agree, I don't put much hope in the collective IQ of the American voter. Right now the majority of Americans don't have $1000 in the savings account to cover an emergency car repair. This desperation is exactly what is making us behave more irrationally. And that irrationality is exactly what is fueling our dysfunctional government.

    The only grip the the corporations and politicians have over us is the way they brainwash us and misdirect our attention through the media towards petty scandals, twitter feuds, culture wars and other forms of nonsense. They're turning our politics into a reality TV show almost completely lacking any substance.

    When in reality there are 3 only existential issues facing us that make all the other dumb stuff we argue about almost irrelevant.

    #1 the environment and how we manage the survival of the species as our population is exploding and we put more and more pressure on the planet. Assuming we've already passed the point of no return on "climate change", how do we make our species more resilient to survive in the fallout. And how can we find ways to live where we not only stop damaging our host planet, but maybe even start healing instead. #2 is still the threat of world war. We still live in a world where a push of a button could trigger an apocalyptic nuclear war. How do we eradicate war from our societies to make sure that never happens. And #3 is technology and all the drastic changes that it is making to our world, especially our economy. How do we harness technology to work for all of us instead of a few powerful corporations using it against us. How do we define our value as humans in a future where we won't be able to compete with robots in many areas. Technology touches many sensitive areas of our society like privacy or the ethics of genetic engineering. We need to start creating a framework of rules for what is happening because things are changing very fast.
     
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  16. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Donald J Trump is the fvcking President of the US of A. That's all you need to know about our collective stupidity. To think Dr. Brown could not digest the notion of a mediocre actor being president, imagine what he would think about a sleazy reality TV star, son of a racist slum lord in the Oval Office.

    Actually thanks to Citizens United Not Timid, they have a grip of the whole process, from campaign funding, to bill passing, to even conservative courts packing. They're not going to let go of the power so easily.

    1. For the most part, we have done most of what needed to be done, regarding population. Yes, it is still increasing, but mostly due to life expectancy increase and access to vaccines, healthcare and clean water in many parts of the world, but by the end of the century the population will plateau at 9-10 billion. Off course there's a lot of pressure in our resource use and to change from an extraction economy to a more circular economy. Good luck getting Big Oil and Big Agr to change their ways while they're still in control of money, government and resources.

    2. There will be wars over resources in the next few decades, not sure if they'll escalate to WWIII but putting madmen like Trump in charge doesn't help our case. I'll get back to you on how Bolton is handling the Iran "talks".

    3. If we were able to do so, we'd be reaching for the stars. But we are a horrible horrible species and full of petty leaders and grifters that end up controlling the direction of our society. Hopefully we manage to change things in less than two decades, otherwise we will be fvcked up for the most part. Billionaires and politicians will still have their havens protected from pollution and scarcity, but the rest of us will have a hard time.
     
  17. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    That makes unions more relevant than ever. Without them, the single gig worker in a car or at a home computer is far less powerful than a single factory worker who can talk to his co-workers and who may slow or stop work by not being there.

    But more than that, the union acts like an employment agency (or to make Republican's happy have a employment agency act like a union - they can't complain if a corporation tries to get the most money it can for it's products, right?). If most jobs are gigs, then you need a more efficient way of connecting people to jobs - active agents instead of just job listings. You can take as an example the greatest gig job ever - dockworkers from WWII until the 1970's when containerization took over. The union made sure they pay was high, and you just showed up on days you felt like it and the union put you in a place to work. People could live reasonably for just three days a week of labor, and they decide when those days are. And you get all the watches you can stuff in your pockets, but that's a side benefit.
     
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  18. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    When you can't see how do you know when the fruit's flying at yer head?
     
  19. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Convincing blue-collar workers that unions, the only ones protecting their jobs, welfare, health and safety, are bad is the biggest scam the Republican party has pulled. I just shake my head when I see blue-collar workers vote Republican because "Democrats are going to take my gun". You effing dolt, the Republican you voted for is trying to take your job, wages, support.
     
  20. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I’m pro union but I’ve also witnessed and heard stories about unions being too greedy. Or lazy. And in my experience, the worst employees were always the ones advocating for unions.

    That said, teamsters didn’t help things, nor did Reagan and the air traffic controllers.
     
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  21. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    I always had my partner watching my back. :whistling:

    upload_2019-5-24_9-29-8.jpeg
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/05/warren/

    I hope this doesn't get lost in this thread. I thought about putting it in a more trafficked thread, but it fits here more than anywhere.

    This is a long blog post about why people in America who think they're getting worse and worse off are wrong and right. (If this interests you in the first few paragraphs, stop reading and go back to his posts over the last 4-5 days about the non-decline of rural America, to get the context.)

    It's really a "read the whole thing post" that defies summary. The best summary I can give is that he pretty conclusively proves in this and the other posts that rural America as a whole is doing alright. Some losers, some winners, but overall, OK. But he also writes this

    and this

    I hope y'all enjoy it.
     
  23. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a very vast majority of my home area that are only worried about whether they are doing g better than "those people".The drugs?Obviously the natives and Russian mafia.The economy?Farmers not getting paid enough by city folk for milk.
    Benefits.Earned by whiteness as opposed to the undeserving others
    Guns?The right of the farmer and hunter.By all means take the guns away from the "criminal classes."
     
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  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Did read the article. But this:

    This is all part of the lived experience in rural areas. It may well be that these places are doing better than we think strictly on a dollars-and-cents basis, but the subjective experience of living in a rural area is often genuinely depressing. Some of this is an illusion, but some of it is quite real—and that’s without even getting into cultural issues, where rural folks feel like they’re being overwhelmed by liberal city values and have no real chance to fight back. This too is something of an illusion—much of it ginned up by Fox News—but again, some of it is also quite real.

    ...I gotta wonder about.

    Rural communities have a right to their dated values, but at the same time, they don't have a right to gate themselves off from the civilized world in defense of those values. The author seems to be almost sympathizing with them because there's more available to read than Grit and more to do than attend church and breed. Evolution is a feature, not a bug.
     
  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the things I never got was that Unions had the mentality that they were to fight against the company (and the company had the opposite). I never got how both didn't understand that they both would benefit from a better company.
     
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