The 2020 Election Mega Thread

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Knave, May 8, 2017.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ASU55RR

    ASU55RR Member+

    Jul 31, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY/Brno,CZ
    Club:
    FC Zbrojovka Brno
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    I'm personally biased toward the Warren and Sanders side with Warren ahead, but I definitely understand why more center-right leaning democrats aren't thrilled with Biden's performance (and am perplexed how many still are). He's holding support despite repeated gaffes on a (I believe, false) perception of electability while the other likely better alternatives are passed over, I would say Booker is probably the best candidate from that side.

    I will vote for any of them in the November election.
     
  2. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I were advising a Democratic candidate, I would suggest a major speech based on the theme of accountability. As in, elites are almost never held accountable anymore. I would tie together Trump, the Sackler family, Wall Street during and after the Crash, Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein, gerrymandering and general GOP shenanigans in Wisconsin and NC, CEO pay, etc. Then I would contrast that with how the 99% never escape accountability, and often even have to pay for the sins of the 1%.
     
  3. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The right wing response would be, but the Clintons got away with murder. And never forget her Emails.

    Still a good idea. Send a message to the base.


    What would they say about the house not yet impeaching Trump?


    I know that it is working it's way past committees, but should candidates push the house leadership to "do more"?
     
  4. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    Accountability of elites must be addressed, no doubt. Something is broken when you have such a blatantly corrupt and comically criminal president and still a former attorney general of the opposing party says it might not be in the best interest of the nation to prosecute him even after he leaves office.

    I get that it would be a painful and bitter fight, but is the alternative any better? Proving beyond a doubt that laws apply only to the common man can't be in the interest of the nation...
     
    dapip repped this.
  5. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There have been plenty of hearings and the WH withholding /requested subpoenaed documents. And the Senate doing very little.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you hate Joe Biden, read this thread and especially the replies.

     
  7. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    Corn Pop's telling is that he was the distraction so his friends could get in for free instead of $.10. Yes, that really was a guy's nickname and he died 3 years ago. The thread is a fun retelling with a modern context versus Biden's POV from back then. For instance, no, it was not crazy that a black person even in a city went through many of their young years never talking to a white person. Segregation and other 'norms' were a very real thing. Population statistics mean nothing. My family members have nicknames to the point that I and most of their friends from growing up don't know their birth names. A neighborhood crew from back then would not be comparable to a violent street gang now.
     
    Deadtigers and charlie15 repped this.
  8. Q*bert Jones III

    Q*bert Jones III The People's Poet

    Feb 12, 2005
    Woodstock, NY
    Club:
    DC United
    Will you marry me?
     
    Deadtigers repped this.
  9. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It seems like corruption and accountability is an issue that mostly energizes those who already hate the guy and is swept under the rug or rationalized by those who like him, so it isn't likely to have a huge impact. But even if it motivates only a small number of independents or people who were unlikely to vote, it might just make the difference. So, yeah, by all means keep bringing it up, the message should get out. And if the message gets out, and people still vote for the guy, then I suppose we get the government we deserve.
     
    Deadtigers repped this.
  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, that's not it. It's not a negative, anti-Trump theme. It's a positive theme...we're going to create a fairer tax system. We're going to look at why college costs are skyrocketing far ahead of inflation. We're going to do more audits on the rich. We're going to stop surprise medical billing. We're going properly regulate the financial industry. We're are going to let voters choose their representatives, rather than the other way around.

    We're going to stop hassling the 99% and allying with the 1%. Instead we're going to ally with the 99%.
     
  11. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Good analogy.
     
  12. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, yes, that would be a great message. It's a much better message than telling people that they will not be able to keep their current health insurance even if they like it, or that they will not be allowed to remain working as independent contractors even if that is what they want - as they are doing in California.
     
  13. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I still don't particularly understand where all these people that like their private health insurance are.
     
    Deadtigers, dapip and Q*bert Jones III repped this.
  14. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well that is what they tell the pollsters.

    Part of it may be fear of change, part of it may be Republican successfully marketing on how government health care is evil.

    I personally like my health insurance, I probably would end up paying more than I do now if we went for gov insurance (my company may save money).

    But I would personally be ok with it, it is not my preference, but is not something that will make my vote non-democratic.
     
    Deadtigers and argentine soccer fan repped this.
  15. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, it's there in the polls. For example, the latest 538 poll indicates that a majority of independents (70 %) support a public option for those who need it, while a minority (39 %) support Medicare for all, so that would tell me that lots of people who are not partisan would rather keep their own plans. The fact that you don't know where we are is really not relevant. Personally, considering I’m planning to have hip replacement surgery next year, the last thing I need right now is any government mandated changes to my healthcare plan.

    We can hope that this misguided idea from some Democrats is not enough to keep independents from rejecting Trump, since there are reasons for rejecting him that are much more important than keeping our health insurance, such as preserving the nation's democratic institutions. But why ask for trouble by proposing unpopular ideas at a time when all reasonable people need to unite against the common enemy?
     
    Boloni86 and charlie15 repped this.
  16. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    But looking at it fundamentally, the American health system is broken in large part because insurers are incentivized to minimize coverage and maximize profit. I don't see a benefit to perpetuating private health insurance when it doesn't work towards better outcomes or universalized coverage. Granted, there are systems like Germany's which have a role for private insurance, but these are very strictly regulated and over 75+% of healthcare is nonetheless state funded and directed.
     
  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the incentive in theory should be to minimize cost, legally they can not maximize profit as by regulation insurance companies are capped at what percentage they can profit. (ok, I had that wrong) it is not a profit cap, but a ratio cap

    https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/rate-review/

    As someone explained to me before, since companies can only recognize 20% of X, the only way insurance can increase their profits is to increase X.


    So we have incentivized insurance companies to grow their cost because that is the only way they can grow their profits.


    The minimizing coverage comes from companies that want to pay less money to cover their employees.


    That is why some people have pointed out, that making the case for government insurance may help America inc. reduce their insurance cost.

    As someone put it, other developed countries subsidize the cost of health care for their corporations, why should America be at a disadvantage?
     
    argentine soccer fan repped this.
  18. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It's not just Germany. Most European nations have a public option and also allow private insurance - Japan also comes to mind - and that's the system that seems to work best. The private sector is then forced to become more efficient in order to remain a reasonable option, while people's ability to opt out of it also are likely to keep the public option more honest and efficient. And, the more efficient the public option becomes, the more likely it will be that more and more people will opt into it, without the need for overreaching government mandates that will turn off consumers to the idea.

    The fact that our health care system may not be operating optimally should not be an excuse to install plans that are more radical than what most developed nations have, for reasons that appear to be more ideological than practical. To be successful, any changes to our current system should be judiciously and carefully planned, and should be supported by the majority of the public. Especially at a time like the present, when as I said we have more important issues that compel us to unite, in order to defeat Trumpism.
     
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is usually non for profit insurance, at least for basic health needs. A few have for profit insurances, but their profits are made up usually on selling up insurance (better beds, new drugs, ect) over basic coverage.
     
    Deadtigers and MatthausSammer repped this.
  20. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That could be achieved by regulating the industry, but the same public who is happy with what they now have might also object to changes by regulation. It's also likely that over time the US will organically evolve into something like that, if it manages to construct an efficient and desirable public option. In Argentina, by contrast, for profit private insurance companies thrived precisely because the public option offered was so inefficient - even though it was free to the public - that anybody who could afford an alternative to it would willingly pay for it.
     
  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is Vox on different type of private insurance in other countries that have universal health care.

    https://www.vox.com/health-care/201...payer-private-health-insurance-harris-sanders
     
  22. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great post. That is my main concern with Warren. She put herself in a corner with M4all when she could have gone with a more efficient option. Americans, and people in general, are risk adverse. This is not the time to come with a complete overhaul of the system.
     
    argentine soccer fan and Boloni86 repped this.
  23. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well....Biden still leading after the debate. Castro at the other end may be gone....

    Morning Consult Post-debate poll (dated 9/13 - 9/15):
    Biden 32
    Sanders 20
    Warren 18
    Harris 6
    Buttigieg 5
    O’Rourke 4
    Booker 3
    Yang 3
    Klobuchar 2

    Early states:

    Biden 34
    Sanders 21
    Warren 13
    Buttigieg 5
    Harris 5
    Steyer 4
    Booker 3
    Gabbard 3
    O’Rourke 3

    https://morningconsult.com/...
     
  24. Kazuma

    Kazuma Member+

    Chelsea
    Jul 30, 2007
    Detroit
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I said in this thread or another, Biden is the equivalent of calling our dad and asking for help, admitting that we ********ed up.
     
    soccernutter, charlie15, sitruc and 4 others repped this.
  25. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    There comes a point in life though where you realize that you are the dad. If anything, it's now up to you to take care of your dad.

    Also, in this case, dad actually had a seat at the table when things went haywire and he wasn't able to prevent it then. You can make a case that dad had more to do with f***ing shit up than you did. Dad should be calling you for help.
     
    Dr. Wankler, ASU55RR and MatthausSammer repped this.

Share This Page