There are clearly signs of progress. It's only just started though, that's the problem. 7 years of dicking about with the wrong managers trying to play the wrong way - it's only this summer that we've actually started moving in the right direction. If we do end up sacking Ole by the end of this season I hope we replace him with someone with exactly the same overall idea of how we should play. The video someone put together which I tried to link to, but immediately became unavailable (think it's working again), was pretty good at explaining our deficiencies vs Palace. Our pressing was very good, and our use of width to create space was effective. In possession our players often take up the right positions and there are regularly good passing options available, but we too often tend to turn and carry the ball rather than lay off to someone already facing in the right direction to pick out the best pass. Basic one touch stuff. Martial, Rashford and Lingard in particular have to pass the ball immediately if there's an option. Martial was trying to spend some time on the ball before releasing, Rashford consistently tries to be a hero, and Lingard should know better than to stay on the ball a second longer than he has to. The goal was actually one example of us passing well - Martial playing the 1-2 with Rash so he could play James in. We lament our lack of creativity but a lot of what we were getting wrong is that we're still trying to be too individualistic. It shouldn't be that difficult to fix from where we are right now, but sometimes old habits die hard where under Mou we genuinely had no width or movement. It might take changes in personnel to click, but we're a lot closer to getting it to click than we've ever been under Mou, LVG or Moyes.
Highly doubt that the fact that we need to get top 4 (or rather get back to the CL) is lost on anyone connected to the club, be it the fans, players, (upper) management or whoever. The problem is that it's clear that the higher ups are obviously banking on some fortuitous turn of events to make it happen, as they haven't done what it takes in terms of moves to help Ole make it happen. As things stand, we're still very much outsiders to make top 4, with Spurs and Arsenal still in the driver seat for 3rd and 4th spot in the league. And it will take a hefty dose of luck to win the EL as well. Said it before as the English window closed and nothing has changed in the least: looking at things now as they are, it will be a tremendous achievement on Ole's part if he can get us back into the CL next season.
Good points, but what progress are you seeing? Ed Woodward is still here. We still suck at tranfers Expectations drop every year Our best player is probably gone by next season Our goalkeeper has lost his mind Were still hording average players on out bench. The jury is still out on our new signings.
@Naboomagnoli any progress you can highlight I can point out a negative. And negatives we have outweigh our positives. I agree we should focus on positive things but let's be careful about calling them progress.
can you count Woodward as a point? who can get him out. realistically will it even happen? at least the age profile of the squad is coming down and the players most wanted gone already are or being phased out. sure we want replacements but given how clearly Solskjær's hands are tied i he's doing what he can. most of what you listed he has inherited not caused and he can't really affect. if DdG is really on the decline as some believe then all he can do is drop him. if Pogba really wants out he can't do anything to stop him or Raiola. he can't sell garbage players on big wages. did he even want to re-up any of them? i know the big focus is on what DIDN'T happen this summer but within his limitations Solskjær has made some positive progress and done good things. i do agree that overall it isn't enough though. unfortunately he will be scapegoated by the near sighted masses regardless. most of that is on the owners and Woodward
I don't consider it scapegoating because he has a small role to play in some of these things. - He keeps playing Lingard. - He (and the club) did. It do enough to defend Pogba in the media, until it was too late. - The whole penalty fiasco that probably wont go away unless we start doing well. He caused it because of his stupid post game interview You talk about not singing anybody. Did you forget what Ole boasted about at the end of last season? ***** We might be in the Champions League next year, because we have got a chance, or we might not be," Solskjaer said. "You would be surprised how many agents have been telling us that their clients would love to be a part of Manchester United in the future. "That is just the lure of Manchester United because they know with the potential here and the size of the club that we will, in the end, get back to good days. ***** On the actual pitch. Im willing to give him until the winter before I make judgment on him. Everything else is ass. The age profile means nothing if the players are not good enough in the end.
I'm not going to dignify the penalty nonsense with more discussion. It's sad that it's even considered worthy of the attention the media and some fans wanted to give it, instead of talking about something substantial. Negatives may outweigh positives. But they don't outweigh progress. Regression outweighs progress, or vice versa. I think this is where you're both going wrong. We're not regressing under Ole, and we're not standing still. We may have a lot of problems that we need to address, that we haven't necessarily even touched on yet. But that doesn't change the fact that we have made genuine progress. We were in a flat spin for 7 years, pulling in the wrong direction (if any direction at all). We were abandoning our identity and fighting against the current of modern football. This is the first season we've looked to play a proactive, positive, high pressing game, and we've looked to do it by cutting out the deadwood that we can get rid of at this point. You want progress? Look at who Ole wants to get rid of compared to what Mourinho's plans were. Look at our rebuild of the U-23s and U-18s, churning out more talent to bring through this year and next, and are playing as we want our first team to play. A lot has happened at the club that should rightly be called progress, that is more important to our future than most people will know or acknowledge right now. If you don't see the changes we've made over the course of this summer as progress then I can't accept that you truly understood how bad things were, and how much worse they were still getting, the day before Mourinho was sacked.
We will be playing League One side Rochdale at home in the third round of the EFL/Carabao Cup. The full draw: - Wolves vs Reading - Oxford v West Ham - Watford v Swansea - Brighton v Aston Villa - Sheffield United v Sunderland - Colchester v Tottenham - Portsmouth v Soton - Burton Albion v Bournemouth - Preston v Manchester City - Luton v Leicester - Mk Dons v Liverpool - Chelsea v Macclesfield/Grimby - Sheffield Wednesday v Everton - Crawley v Stoke - Arsenal v Nottingham Forest
well like you said a small role. 100% agree on Lingard. he doesn't strike me as a "play through the rough patch" player but very much a "hit reset - back to the bench until you improve" type the protecting Pogba - do you mean so he wouldn't want to leave? i thought he tried to fight the media pressure on him the penalty fiasco? you'd hope our players could cope with the 'pressure' regardless. as for the quote - not optimal but what else would he say? ideally maybe "we'll try to sign who we need and see where we end up" but again that is on Woodward. there's been a clear reduction in the wage bill and little net spend. maybe clients did/do want to come to United but maybe Woodward or the owners vetoed any or most purchases. can we say for sure?
There's an inflection point based around Herrera's injury - if you allow the bounds to be expanded. On this side of the inflection point, we are with Chelsea in terms of allowing more goals than expected (Chelsea's ratio was 1.32:1, United's is 1.34:1) On the prior side of the inflection point, Herrera's injury, we have a ratio under 1.00 - the same way that Arsenal, City, Liverpool, and Spurs have ratios under 1.00 (all values between 0.53 and 0.89). So it's not just three games. This trend dates back to and inflects right at that moment. The way I interpret that is that is two main points: -Our midfield lacks the chops to protect our CBs . We went from using two players with primarily defensive roles (Herrera, Matic) to trusting Pogba and McTominay to sit deep and watch the passing lanes. McTominay has, if nothing else, been very good on the defensive aspect. -We're exposing ourselves to lots of transition scenarios. xG and xGA can't measure whether defenders are set and anticipating from good positions or trying to make up ground and reacting. Transition scenarios arising from missed markers, open passing lanes, and dispossession in the middle of the park. So, that brings me back to something I've said before - Pogba generally lacks the positional discipline to stay focused for 90 minutes to play in a role with significant defensive responsibility - and it won't matter how much we improve our defense until we either buy more players to accommodate Pogba or sell Pogba and build with more complimentary players.
http://www.football365.com/news/solskjaer-undermined-after-man-utd-board-blocked-four-deals #progress
That's what confirmation bias is. To be fair - we've already said that Ole wants to get rid of these sorts of players. It is literally happening on the day that you're posting this link, even if it's Smalling not Rojo, and Sanchez not Darmian. But the idea that we've not signed Longstaff or Bruno Fernandes because we haven't got rid of deadweight in other positions, knowing full well we had another month to get rid of said deadweight? And having sold Lukaku before the deadline? Come on mate. Don't justify your acceptance of bullshit logic on the basis that 'well it sounds like something they'd do wouldn't it'.
The fact that Woodward / Judge can only do loan deals and not sell players owing to wages, shows how massively incompetent Woodward / Judge are and have been at evaluating their player 'assets' and negotiating suitable wages with agents. If we ever get any kind of DoF (ie not the limited role that was put forward for the likes of Rio or Fletch which won't cut it) in the role they have to be able to manage our squad not just in terms of recruitment but in terms of contracts and remuneration too. The bigger concern is that if the players are not fully off the books, then Woody / Glazers may continue to stiff us on buying suitable replacements.
That's hardly a Woody specific thing though. Every big club struggles now shipping out dead wood, because of the enormous gap between the top tier and the middling tier of club financial power. Arsenal have struggled moving Mustafi and Oezil. City struggled to move some of their failures too - see Mangala. Chelsea - Drinkwater It goes on and on. That's the challenge in being a buying club versus a selling club.
I know i took a jab when i said progress, but this was more about the higher ups undermining Ole. They did undermine Jose, LVG and Moyes. Also it does make a difference that the player is Smalling and NOT Rojo for this example. Smalling is the best of the rest when it comes to our CB's. We kept the worst ones.
Smalling was clearly not in our plans - I don't think he made any of our squads. I'd have ditched Rojo or Jones ahead of him but I can understand why we didn't want to strengthen Everton. Not sure Rojo would have had that effect though tbh. I'd have loved it if we could sell all of our deadwood straight away, but as RVN said, there are big teams across Europe who are struggling to get rid of players who aren't shit. We've sold those who still hold some value, and loaned some of those who aren't worth buying but might be able to do a job. We still have some shit players left, but we still have less deadwood. That's still #progress. And there's a clear hierarchy at CB - Maguire and Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe, Rojo and Jones. Maybe Smalling wasn't happy being 5th choice or 4th given Bailly's injury).
JamesA actually said it a few posts ago though i did share the same sentiment some time back in another thread
some papers saying Darmian expected to go on loan too. "unnamed club". garbage sources but maybe this might be the rare one they get right. Inter again? DoF Beppe Marotta to help again? 3 for 3?
GP is right in the sense too much acceptance going on as “ok for us to just be aiming for CL”. F that S - don't let Woodward & Glazers wear you down, should be mad as hell with clubs lack of ambition and urgency. 1167267576432472064 is not a valid tweet id