The 2018 MLS TV Thread

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by KCbus, Mar 6, 2017.

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  1. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    UniMas/Univision Sports offer English commentary via the SAP function on your tv.

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only one of them does.
     
  3. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    It's an interesting theory, but the data from individual markets don't seem to support it, from what I can see. I wish we had data for individual markets for a whole season, though. Adding NYCFC with Pirlo, Villa, and Lampard and Orlando with Kaka probably helped national ratings because there are now more attractive games to draw the casual fan. Adding TAM to a bunch of teams, LAFC, Barco and Zlatan this year will probably help to draw fans from every market. I just don't think you get 25k new fans that will now watch every single national broadcast every time you add a new market. For example, Atlanta was the most popular team in the league last year, but they didn't crack the top 10 in ratings for the Seattle-LAFC game. Even among similarly sized East Coast markets, they got beat by Philadelphia, which is one of the least popular teams in MLS. Obviously, we shouldn't jump to conclusions from any single week, because there could be a bunch of factors that pop up from week to week. However, Nashville is already often a top 10 market before entering MLS. So did we already get the 15-25k viewers from Nashville, or should we expect to see that many more a year after they join?

    The national ratings in the last 5 years have been between 200-250k, with around 20 teams. Even if every MLS market had just 15k viewers, that would mean ratings would already be over 300K. And there are many non-MLS markets that beat MLS markets in ratings. So, either there are a lot less than 15k fans per MLS market that will watch every week, or most of them stop watching over time, or there are a lot of other factors that are driving national ratings, other than the number of markets in the league. Is the number of markets one factor? Yes, it probably is one. But can we expect a 15k-25k jump every time there is a new team? I doubt it.
     
  4. eddygee

    eddygee Member+

    DC United
    May 12, 2007
    Moco, Maryland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    It's a interesting theory hardly scientific. I look at MLS TV ratings in the now MLS 3.0 as I am viewing the league as a growing child. As it grows so does it abilities, it abilities are National TV ratings. Other teams that entered in MLS 1.0 and MLS 2.0 were limited in their TV ratings ability.

    So I look at it from the most recent expansion wave in 2015 that also saw Chivas go defunct . I use that as a data starting point because there is a strong correlation from that point with expansion and TV ratings increasing. Which gets me to my theory, I don't think it's a coincidence that since the TV ratings have relatively surged since the recent wave of expansion in 2014-2017. The league saw it's average TV rating rise by more than a quarter of it's total.

    2014- 19 teams 200k Avg. TV Rating
    2015- 20 teams 219k Avg. TV Rating
    2016- 20 teams 250k Avg. TV Rating
    2017- 22 teams 253k Avg. TV Rating
    2018- 23 teams ??? Avg. TV Rating


    I think that if my theory is right. That each new market creates a 15-25k boost to the average MLS TV rating that there is a 1 yr. overlap to see that show up in TV ratings. If I'm right this years average TV ratings will range from 275-295k. It will be something fun and easy to track. I may be off but I think I'm right.

    2014- 19 down to 18 teams 200k Avg. TV Rating minus Chivas USA
    2015- 18 to 20 teams 219K Avg TV Rating add NYCFC & Orlando City
    2016- 20 teams 250k Avg TV Rating
    Full expansion effect occur 25k each
    2017- 22 teams 253k Avg TV Rating add ATL.UTD & Minn UTD.
    2018- 23 teams 275-295k Avg TV Rating add LA and expansion effect
    2019- 24 teams 290-305k Avg TV Rating LAFC expansion effect
    2020- 26 teams 310-315k Avg TV Rating add Nash/ MIA
    2021- 27 teams 340-365k Avg TV Rating add SAC-Nash/ MIA expansion effect
    2022- 28 teams 375-380k Avg TV Rating add Detroit & Full expansion effect
    2023- New TV deal
     
  5. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    Those of us that use SlingTV don't get that luxury :(
    Sling doesn't support SAP.
     
  6. Ron36pc

    Ron36pc Member

    Sep 7, 2009
    Nacogdoches, TX
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Neither does Fubo.tv.

    But while I was getting the Spanish language commentary, I was reminded by the English announcers (in their twice-per-broadcast reminders) that it was available via Twitter as well, downloaded the Twitter app for Roku and enjoyed the broadcast in English. Nice!
     
    NashSC repped this.
  7. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    good to know
     
  8. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    I think it takes some very generous reading of the ratings to get that pure upward trajectory. Like maybe an MLS PR guy gave a press release to the AP that puts the best possible spin on their tv ratings. USA Today ran the exact same story, but changed the headline to "MLS attendance is up, but tv ratings lag..."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_on_television#Ratings_and_viewers

    The fuller story seems to be that ratings have been relatively flat on ESPN, going up and down season to season. MLS Cup ratings have gone from 3 million viewers in its first year before settling around 1 million while it was on ABC, then fluctuates year to year on ESPN. ESPN2 ratings averaged 263,000 in 2006, and 11 years later they were at 272,000. In between, the ratings go up and down every year. FS1 ratings on the wiki page are hard to compare because one year they combined the ratings with FOX and the others they didn't. In the only 2 years when they show FS1 separately from FOX, the ratings went down. The Spanish channels have been flat as well. How you get a pure upward trajectory from that, and attribute it entirely to expansion, I have no idea. A regression would tell a more complete story, but I don't have the time or the data to do that.
     
  9. eddygee

    eddygee Member+

    DC United
    May 12, 2007
    Moco, Maryland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #159 eddygee, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
    I think you are missing some key points. The sole purpose of this is to track MLS ratings and have discussions that align to any future TV rights. While it's true the leagues TV ratings have fluctuated thus remaining flat since 2006, however they have been on a upward trajectory since 2014 when the new TV deal with ESPN,FOX, and Univision were announced.

    You also have to look at key factors from the earlier period in 2006 and foward.
    One key factor was the Beckham effect in his 5 yrs in the league he increased MLS marketing and TV appeal. You also have to look at a different TV landscape for the league, ABC was still carrying a handful of National broadcast OTA games not just playoffs. After a period of time that ended and MLS was relegated to ESPN 2 and now defunct Fox Soccer Channel. Since the latest TV deal was announced in 2014 MLS has returned to having a handful of National broadcast OTA games. That combined with new expansion markets has increased new eyeballs to the league.

    Yes it's PR for MLS to just focus on 2014 and forward but its good PR why not use it. After all MLS got its $90 mil per yr TV rights deal with averaging just 200k viewers, because ESPN was counting on future growth. A little less than halfway through the deal last year MLS averaged 253k. It can be debated if it should be more or not but the numbers are what they are, the league has given the networks a increase.
    MLSCapture.JPG


    I'm not as down on MLS TV ratings as you seem to be though. I see a marked increase since 2014 and averaging 200k in the overall regular season TV rating that year.
    Capture.JPG

    We could be going the opposite direction like the NHL. It would be nice though if we could also get a negotiated 15 games on FOX. NHL info is below.

    http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html
    NHLCapture.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Kejsare

    Kejsare Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Mar 10, 2010
    Virginia
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW, I kept an eye on the Twitter "Total Viewers" and it came out to over 600,000 by the time the game ended. I have no idea what the average viewing time was. I wasn't paying too close attention to the current live viewers but I never saw it greater than 35k. Must've been many small viewings.
     
  11. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only watched by going directly to the link so I don't know. Did it automatically start each time it appeared in someone's feed and count as a view?
    Also I probably turned it on and off 3 or 4 times. Was the 600k unique viewers, or total views?
     
  12. JayRockers!

    JayRockers! Member+

    Aug 4, 2001
    Get a cord.

    Thx,

    Jay!
     
  13. Kejsare

    Kejsare Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Mar 10, 2010
    Virginia
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great questions!

    No idea.
     
  14. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Looking for some feedback on something I stumbled across while rebutting a post in the USA forums.

    Someone brought up the WNBA ESPN deal which was extended in 2014. ESPN pays the WNBA 25 million a year. That is the same time frame of when the new SUM deal was announced for 75 million a year.

    The basic argument the individual was making was that ratings were similar and thus MLS should be more in line with the WNBA numbers. Or they deserve around 25 million a year.

    But I looked into the numbers. The WNBA would have around 30 games a season on ESPN/ABC family of networks.

    I looked at the 2017 season specifically.
    MLS had right around 77 games on ESPN+FOX networks.
    WNBA had right around 32 games broadcast on ESPN networks.

    A very simple comparison would be...
    WNBA 25 mill/32=781,250
    781,250*77=60,156,250

    On the surface that doesn't seem out of the ordinary if MLS is valued around 60 million a year. But the USSF side would only be 15 a year at that point.

    Thoughts?
     
  15. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    Aren't the MLS rights packaged with USMNT? If so that is why the price is different. USMNT gets much higher ratings than wnba. Especially while playing meaningful games.
    USMNT has had some really high tv numbers.
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many USMNT home games are there a year? Particularly meaningful ones?
     
  17. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Correct.

    Here is the debate though. There are many out there who believe that MLS brings very little to the TV deal and that they are siphoning money from USSF. The guy who brought up the WNBA was trying to argue that exact point.
     
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  18. eddygee

    eddygee Member+

    DC United
    May 12, 2007
    Moco, Maryland
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The bigger point is if that is his response about MLS the WNBA is a even bigger offender. No body goes to those games look at the crowd the next time a WNBA game is on. They live off the NBA they have a built in base audience thanks to the NBA marketing and financial help. That league is a standup league meaning it's needs to be propped up. MLS doesn't need that. MLS is SUM and is MLS so if SUM controls the USMNT profits guess what? Third counter to give the person is this passage of wikipedia and picture link from sportsbusinessdaily.com The WNBA is what MLS would be if it got the same avg season numbers during the post season. That is why the leagues differ in pay MLS has a higher audience pot to draw from and it has a favorable market that advertisers covet. That's how you get $ 90 mil pr yr and $117 mil per yr rights deals like the MLS has compared to WNBA'S $25 mil TV deal and the amount of money the NBA loses propping it up. You may quote this in rebuttal.

    https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2017/09/08/Media/Audience.aspx
    Audience Analysis: WNBA Regular-Season Viewership Hits New Low For ESPN/ESPN2 in 2017. (Averaged just 171k for the season.)


    In 2015 ESPN2 televised ten regular season games, and ESPN one, for an average of 202,000 viewers. Game one of the finals telecast on ABC, drew 571,000 viewers, up from 558,000 for game 1 in 2014. Game three of the finals drew 432,000 viewers, and game five drew 583,000, both on ESPN2.

    Game 1 of the 2016 WNBA Finals was broadcast on ABC and had 0.5 overnight rating (597,000 viewers), which was the best since 2010. The 5 game 2016 Finals broadcast on ABC, ESPN and ESPN2 averaged a 0.3 rating and 487,000 viewers.


    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lyndsey-darcangelo/the-wnbas-biggest-problem_b_9437480.html
    WNBA3.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

  19. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    It is still part of the deal.
    In the 2 years of WCQ there are quite a few meaningful games. Then there are also gold cup games.
    The point is this cannot be compared to the WNBA deal in any way shape or form. Now if you want to continue to be argumentative just for the sake of it let me know.
     
  20. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn your reading comprehension is poor. Your first post asked a question which was answered in the post you quoted. Then someone asked a follow-up question that you somehow saw as "argumentative"
    You are terrible at discussion, which is what this site is designed for.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  21. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    It was posted in a "yeah, but it doesn't matter cause there aren't many games" manner and you know it.

    Sorry about missing the USSF part in the first post. Your point is taken on that part.
     
  22. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #172 Yoshou, Mar 28, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
    The contract includes roughly 10 USMNT games per year, so roughly 80 games across the 8 year contract. Of those games, 16 are conpetitive games (3 group games, 5 Hex in 2 cycles). That's it. The package also includes the USWNT games, which is generally 5-10 games a year, all of which are friendlies as women's national team has a single tournament controlled by CONCACAF to determine WCQ.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...unce-new-TV-deal-with-ESPN-Fox-Univision.html

    The TV rights for Gold Cup games are sold separately from the package deal between MLS and the USNT games.

    http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/11/11/fox-sports-gold-cup-tv-rights-2017-2019/

    The argument that the MLS/USNT package is more than the WNBA because of the inclusion of the USMNT is largely bunk simply because the number of games included in the package for the USMNT is a fraction of the games offered in the package. Additionaly, the USMNT averages less than 500k viewers per game included in the package, excluding the game against Mexico. All of the high ratings for USMNT games are in competitions that are not included in the package (World Cup, Gold Cup, Copa America).

    http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/11/...l-team-increase-32-2016-copa-america-boost/2/
     
  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Naw man.. I was hoping you would look things up and educate yourself before I had to waste my time and wreck your argument.
     
    FoxBoro 143, Kejsare and JasonMa repped this.
  24. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

    Aug 22, 2006
    Denver CO
    None this year.
     
  25. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This week's TV refs:

    Jair Marrufo - UniMas (2nd of season)
    Mark Geiger - FOX (3rd)
    Armando Villarreal - ESPN2 (1st)
     

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