This season NBC is showing 110 regular NHL games plus the all-star game, the Winter Classic, a Stadium Series game and the Stanley Cup for a bargain $200 million.
Speaking of hockey, I'm curious about MLS in Canada. While the focus tends to be on US, MLS is a Canadian league and Canada is a top 10 economy. Since the CFL and NCAA are much less relevant in Canada than US, from my recollection, MLS has much better penetration in Canada than US. Perhaps this information has been discussed but I missed it but here some questions: What are ratings in Canada vs US? Forbes said they increased by 27% on TSN and 11% on French-language TVA. But where did they start? How much are they worth? What were ratings for MLS final in Canada (clearly lower than last year when Toronto was in)? Any info Canada?
MLS is a US league with 3 Canadian clubs You mean NFL right? Despite the increases, they aren't better than the CFL and they aren't great. All non-MLS markets dont follow MLS, don't watch it nor care much for it. The highest TV ratings was when Montreal play TFC in the Eastern Conference final 3 years ago. Millions watched it. Also millions watched TFC MLS finals. When Canadian teams aren't competing, it's not that great. Honest truth here
Cities whose metro pop represent most of the countries population no? CFL. I'm assuming it is nowhere as popular in Canada as is NFL is in US. What type of ratings does the CFL get? How much CFL, NBA, NFL, MLB do Canadians watch? Hockey is king, how does everything else rate?
Absolutely not. They represent less than 1/3 of the country. Montreal Impact draw mainly within the city limits (I'm being generous). They don't draw regionally, let alone provincially. TFC does marginally better regionally but not great provincially Vancouver is mostly Vancouver (city). They could be doing better regionally than the rest on their side of the Fraser river but not on the other side nor Vancouver Island. The rest, over 2/3 of the country aren't following MLS. The Blue Jays and Raptors draw more nationally than MLS... Even Curling does better https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/curling/terry-jones-curling-television-rating-continue-to-soar Last year the Tim Hortons Brier Saturday night semifinal outdid Hockey Night In Canada. The curling on TSN drew an average of 896,000 and the Toronto Maple Leafs vs St. Louis Blues 743,000. The Brier average of 587,000 outdid the average for an Oilers or Flames game. The Scotties Tournament of Hearts semifinal has drawn 430,000 up against HNIC two of the last three years. It's a huge draw in Western Canada and Hamilton. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver draw less but usually they do fantastic during the Grey Cup. Some of the TV ratings per teams (CFL) http://3downnation.com/2018/09/21/cfl-ratings-report-team-team-look-season-far/ SSK 717,958 EDM 571,583 HAM 555,675 CAL 543,183 WIN 540,258 TOR 503,473 B.C. 500,964 MTL 477,317 OTT 449,750 2017 CFL Grey Cup https://www.cfl.ca/2017/11/27/105th-grey-cup-presented-shaw-earns-10-increase-viewership-tsn-rds/ An average audience of 4.3 million Canadians tuned in to TSN (4.1 million) and RDS (220,000) to watch the Toronto Argonauts dramatic come-from-behind victory over the Calgary Stampeders in the instant-classic championship game. Overall, nearly 10 million unique viewers, or almost 30% of Canadians, watched some or all of the Argo’s dramatic 27-24 victory over the Stampeders. MLS numbers on cable https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports...up-ratings-while-struggling-jays-numbers-drop TSN says TFC games on TSN/CTV are averaging 93,000 viewers this year in terms of total audience, compared to 59,000 over the same time period last season. The Whitecaps season average is 86,000, compared to 69,000 in 2016. The Montreal Impact are averaging 80,000, compared to 73,000 last season. Not even close for MLS. It just doesn't draw nationally. That's a fact See the links above My analysis stays remains consistent. MLS has done a very poor job at giving Canadians reasons to watch it. They haven't done the marketing job that the other leagues did. Unfortunately for them, it's too late in my opinion as CPL is putting teams in the remaining markets representing 2/3+ of the population. I can't see how MLS compete with that (in Canada only of course)
Thanks for the response. Canada is a bit more spread out than I realized even taking into account would I probably would consider much of the Golden Horseshoe part of Toronto metro area while you would not. Believe it or not I've been to quite few cities including Halifax and Thunder Bay which are bit off the beaten path. Montreal is one of my favorites in North America. A lot of people say Quebec City is interesting but I haven't been there. I also was aware that curling was popular but am surprised it is that popular. Seems like MLS draws pretty well when Toronto and Montreal play in some big games but still have a ways to go otherwise. If you add those numbers up, MLS still seems to have better penetration in Canada than US. As we have discussed in other threads I'm far more skeptical on the success of CPL than you but we'll see next year when they start playing. Why haven't Vancouver and Montreal done better? Vancouver seemed to put a lot of effort in their academy - I would have ranked them among the top 5, certainly the top 10. What is the CPL going to be able to do they those teams didn't?
To be fair, they have made progress on TV. Attendances could be more consistent for Montreal. The Blue Jays have been exceptionally good at marketing themselves as "Canada's team" The Raptors have followed suit with the "We the North" campaign. The nation started to rally behind them. MLS teams in Canada haven't done anything remotely close to that, so they have a hard time winning new fans beyond their cities That's a very controversial topic in these parts. Maybe they have been trying hard but the results have been poor. Shutting down Vancouver Whitecaps II rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in Vancouver...Same for Montreal shutting down FC Montreal. They will be in markets where MLS is totally absent which represents over 2/3 of the country. That's a massive advantage over the 3 MLS clubs and their ceiling is undeniably higher domestically for the long term.
This is older (2016), but the only thing I found in a quick google search. It has some CFL ratings, with one regular season Toronto game. 5. CFL, Lions at Roughriders, Saturday, TSN: 719,000 8. CFL, Redblacks at Blue Bombers, Saturday, TSN: 591,000 12. CFL, Eskimos at Tiger-Cats, Friday, TSN: 387,000 13. CFL, Stampeders at Alouettes, Sunday, TSN: 355,000 19. MLS, New York at Toronto FC, Sunday, TSN: 238,000 26. Soccer, Liverpool at Crystal Palace, Saturday, Sportsnet: 129,000 28. MLS, Red Bulls at Impact, Sunday, TSN: 112,000 BTW check out all those curling ratings, no shit the Canadians do love their curling. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/e...n-verge-of-a-new-era-on-tv-165214722-spt.html
Yeah, but we got gold in Men's curling (lets not mention who got gold in mixed doubles). This has to be the first Curling smack talk in BS history.
I'm closely watching the NHL TV ratings along with EPL and they aren't good. It's no hyperbole when I say it really looks like NHL could have another double digit in their TV average this year. The NBCSN average is 284k it was in the 275k. That seems decent... right but there are 4 games that rated so low the number wasn't released. The numbers had to be really low because NBCSN has released ratings for games that averaged 126k this season, so the true average is somewhere in the 255-260k range. The NBCSN average last season was 302k. I really have no clue why the NHL TV average is tanking so bad, it's not even the regualr sports down one season up the next a bit see saw thing. There's been a precipitous decline since the 15-16 season that average 378k to last years 302k, now this years average on NBCSN is most likely in the 255-260k range. It will be of interest as being a NHL fan as well to see what kind of TV deal NHL gets with those numbers as NHL deal is up in 2021 and will probably be announce late in the 2019-2020 season. If NHL can double their US TV deal to $400 mil with their regular season numbers having shed 30-40% of it's viewers, things bode well for MLS.
Do you happen to have the breakdown between NBC exclusive games vs simulcast games against local broadcasters? Any other explanation for the decrease such as more games in poorer time slots?
I think @DanielCzech might have it, but there really isn't a break the numbers are just down. I've heard people say it's because the game has changed it's hard to pinpoint exactly why. I know the main thing that was believed and it prompted NBC to change how they broadcast games. NHL fans complained that it was no wonder TV ratings were down in past years because they only showed the same handful of teams on TV and other fanbase grew tired and didn't watch. So NBC decided to revamp the schedule and show other markets this year they increased games to 110 to properly do so. It doesn't look like that worked, instead the opposite has occurred you now have more Minnesota United vs Real Salt Lake games on TV that draw lower numbers and less Atlanta United, Seattle, Portland, LAFC, LA Galaxy type teams that draw well. So I think that's some of what you're seeing the regionalism of NHL playing out. They are trying to Nationalize the league to increase popularity but are running into the fact that outside a handful of Northern Markets that maybe the league isn't that popular in the rest of the US. Maybe its a situation that after a few years things turn around I just don't know. I posted this a cpl post ago but here are the TV numbers.
NBC regular is down over 2 years, but up from last year according to this http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/04/nhl-viewership-nbc-nbcsn-regular-season/ The NHL gets paid for playoffs ratings, those tend to be pretty good, now what percentage of the 400 million does NBC pay for playoff ratings vs regular season ratings, is anyone guess. If I am reading your attachment correctly below, MLS on FOX regular averaged around 1.007M viewers per game. Not too far off from the NBC regular of 12 games for the NHL (1.29M that includes streaming).
And female curlers are hot! Not many sports produce an annual nude/semi-nude calendar of their best athletes.
Canada in curling is like Brasil in football. Canada has seven of the top 10 ranked teams today on the men's side and 6 on the women's side. So, the real question for Canada is always if the qualifier winner is actually the best team for the Olympics. And like Brasil, Canada sometimes sends out the wrong selection.
Yes you are reading that right, 1.007M viewers was was the MLS on FOX average this regular season. We did have the WC lead ins to help some but there will always be some sort of lead in on FOX whether its the NFL simulcast game, next season it will be WWC/Gold Cup. NHL is getting a average of $187 mil per year NBC paid the rest upfront. It was said that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman last year said he was seaking no less than $500 mil yr for the new US deal. https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2018/12/05/the-nhls-most-valuable-teams/#184379c550e2 The current U.S. television deal with NBC pays an average of $187 million a season—the network agreed to pay $2 billion over ten years but handed the league $200 million up front—and is likely to increase more than twofold when the current deal expires after the 2020-21 season. True, regular season viewership was down last season, but ratings were up for the more valuable postseason. A number like $400 million a year is quite possible. The key question from NHL to NBC is how much will the regular season losses hurt the overall value of the product. The NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs can still attract the casual fan but those casual fan don't return for the regular season and even fewer regulars are year after year. At some point that will seep into the post season as the TV casuals are drawn to the "big thing" and NHL will be even more reliant on hoping the right teams make the playoffs so playoff number recoup the regular season losses. NHL has just had bad timing on the TV front. They signed their last deal in 2010 just a few years before the big TV contract boons the NBA, MLB, and NFL signed. If they somehow could've waited 2-3 yrs NHL could have already had 2x the TV deal $. Now their next TV deal is coming in 2021 when their TV ratings are 3 seasons into a free fall.
I used to watch more NHL on NBC, but stopped because I truly tired of Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA, San Jose and Washington. I don't even pay attention anymore to who is on the games, because they lost my viewership entirely. Now... I log onto the the NHL.TV app and watching the free game of the day. Last night was Winnipeg vs. Tampa and it was great. That's how I consume hockey and I'm sure I'm not alone... NBC lost me to the app.
Maybe this is what's happening I post on HFBoards and have heard the same thing mentioned, I guess you can only see the Blackhawks, Rangers, Penguins, Buffalo, and Red Wings so much mixed with the Flyers or Caps if one of the TV darlings is trash. The catch 22 is NBC execs know what draws and what doesn't it's big name Original 6 teams in big US markets. Fans of small market teams complain don't watch, NBC then says ok we'll mix the schedule to show these others markets teams. Small market fans are happy their team is on NBCSN/NBC now but TV numbers aren't good then NBC is left in a proverbial rock and a hard place. Do you slow bleed and cut your losses by just showing the teams that draw and lose more regular fans like you each year OR do they press on with the new strategy and hope to convert more new fans in those smaller market which in turns nationalizes the NHL out of being a North East sport. The NHL and MLS have different problems. NHL while regional is regional in the right markets in the NorthEast and Great Lakes where the sport is big enough in NYC,Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago and Detroit where those areas and markets can carry the league nationally even though its losing steam in those markets compared to the 90s NHL golden era. MLS is more National and spread out in pockets of interest thru the US but that interest level is very shallow. I supposed its better to have pockets of interest spread throughout the US then just defined to a region of the US. It's just time consuming growing the sport in terms of TV numbers having shallow level of support thru the TV market landscape vs having decades of diehard support in a specific region like NHL does. When MLS does get to a point that there is enough support in "favorable" MLS US markets from a very shallow level of support to marginal/average in the sporting landscape then I think there will be no looking back for MLS. Right now we have Atlanta, Seattle Portland, Sporting KC, and DC United. Only three of those markets are really TOP 10 Major Metros. Too many markets that can do so much better even by MLS standards. NY teams- Some positive signs there but not enough yet LA Teams- LAFC positive signs LA Galaxy borderline dumpster fire, Chicago-dumpster Fire. If half of the teams had support in there markets like Seattle, Portland, Atlanta and Sporting KC. MLS would be well established and ahead of NHL IMHO. MLS just needs to get teams as half as popular in their markets as those teams to really move the needle. There is hope as we have more new teams coming into markets where those markets view MLS teams as a Major Sports league, unlike back in the day where some markets looked at MLS teams like a new double/triple AAA farm team. At 23 teams and 9 more soon coming, for the first time ever there will be more MLS 2.0-3.0 markets that view and see their teams as Major US Pro teams than the MLS 1.0 markets that kicked the league off.
You're forgetting a key point that MLS doesn't have that the NHL have in their pockets... Canadian TV viewership and TV contract https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-rogers-announce-landmark-12-year-deal/c-693152 The 12-year agreement, announced jointly by the NHL and Rogers in a Tuesday morning press conference, is for $5.232 billion (Canadian). It's the largest media rights deal in NHL history and one of the largest media rights deals in Canadian history. It is also Canada's largest sports-media rights agreement. ~$436M per years which is approx $325MUS/year. Hence my amusement when I read posts talking like there's no money to be made in Canada. If you market yourself the right way and draw enough from here, there's tons of money to be made here. Will MLS adopt a separate marketing strategy to increase their metrics here? Would that make a difference? Hard to say, but the longer they wait, the more improbable it becomes. I'm talking no brainer things like an all Canadian match up on Canada day would boost the TV ratings. MLB understood as much with the yearly Canada day game at Rogers Centre which is one of the most watched games of the year. MLS? Nothing...and that's really easy points (potential revenue and awareness) they are throwing away. TFC vs MTL & Vancouver vs. Seattle. Oh well...
I think Impact vs. TFC is scheduled during the MLS wide biannual "rivalry week". Also the Canadian Championship final is played during the last week in June. Wouldn't it make sense to move that to Canada Day?
That won't attract casuals to the product nor has it so far. No one cares about "rivalry week" here. Not anymore. CPL has July 1st circled in their calendar for Canada day. They will most likely have games during the day outside of the Blue Jays Canada day game and in Non-CFL stadiums at non-CFL times (Vancouver Island, Halifax and Toronto...most likely) CPL won't pass that opportunity