I find your posts interesting, but since I don't follow this topic that closely, I might have missed things you've previously discusses. Here are few questions: 1) It say ESPN is down (but both ESPN and ESPN2 are up) so I'm assuming this is due to more broadcasts on the network wit lower numbers which is presumably ESPN2/ Correct? 2) ESPN networks have been dropping subscribers. I'm presuming the impacts ratings as I'm presuming ratings are based on all viewers, not viewers that carry ESPN. Do you have any idea of how all ratings on ESPN and ESPN2 compare year over year? 3) Any mention of ESPN deportes or how that factors into the ESPN numbers? 4) I presume ESPN has very detailed information on who is watching what on ESPN+ but chooses not to release that information. Any idea how that is faring?
Thanks for the compliment I honestly can't say about the deportes number as ESPN doesn't normally put out Deportes numbers for MLS games they do put them out regular for Liga MX. I honestly took that ESPN line as spin the number was down 1% last year but they probably wanted to have a good story to tell for ESPN. You are correct on the ESPN drop with subscribers. I posted it a couple pages back but from Jan 17- Aug of this year ESPN had lost 2mil subscribers that is very plausible fo the drop in ESPN numbers as well as FS1. I'm sure networks take that in account when looking at numbers. On ESPN+ they don't release numbers, there was a article about 2 mnths ago where ESPN said they were pleased with MLS numbers on ESPN+ I haven't went to bed yet just got in will find and link article later today.
His numbers (on the last page) were 2016 vs 2017. The number of viewers that have ESPN have nothing to do with the rating (in terms of total or average). Now if you mean some people used to watch MLS on cable TV, but now they do not, then yes, this surely does have an impact. Those people are , watching illegal streams or paying for some other service, some make MLS money (MLS pass) and some we do not know, but they probably do a little. Those numbers do not usually come out, once in a while we get information about the full year average or so, but the info is so limited that tracking it is basically impossible (at least for people not getting paid to do this)
You mean if there were a rights dispute and half the cable companies dropped ESPN, it wouldn't impact the ratings? Doesn't seem correct to me and it seems to contradict what eddiegee wrote. If that say were the case I would think BEIN would have higher ratings since a large number of people that pick up that channel would have an interest in La Liga, and other leagues they carried while most ESPN subscribers are not interested in sports, let alone soccer.
I think I got confused by you saying "ratings are based on all viewers, not viewers that carry ESPN." I got the impression that you were thinking that there was some equation where the number of viewers of an TV event got divided by the number of viewers that have the channel and that is how this was calculated. So my point is that if a game reports 800K, the number of available households (people that have the channel) do not matter, they can be 20 million or 80 million. But what you mean is that cable cutters would affect the TV rating year over year, yes this should, now we do not know if MLS watchers are the ones cutting the cable, most of us based on demographics think that there is a correlation between the people that watch MLS and the type of people that cut their cable. That means that even if MLS ratings are flat, the overall watchers of the League in media can be growing, new watchers on TV are just replacing watchers that moved to On-line watching. Is all guess speculation, since there is little information about on line watching (bits here and there), we can only compare TV ratings year over year.
Yes of note MLS ESPN lost 2 million subscribers from Jan of 2017 to current Aug of this year. That has to have a effect. I read on a hockey board a guy explain that he used to be a Nielsen household, through figuring out the math with a friend he discovered that each Nielsen voter in his area that 1 Nielsen household represented about 17k viewers. So imagine a lost of 2 million subscribers on ESPN to ratings. Little things like that don't get thought about when people think about ratings.
Ouch that NFL Buzz saw ATL UTD vs Chicago Fire ESPN 168k 10/21/18 Sun 300pm Minn UTD vs LAG ESPN 136k 10/21/18 Sun 500pm
MLS TV 2018 TV Ratings ESPN Networks FOX Networks Univision Networks Week 1 HOU v ATL 469K UNI March 3 Sat 330pm SEA v LAFC 456K ESPN Mar 4 Sun 5pm SKC v NYCFC 180K FS1 Mar 4 Sun 730 pm LAG v Port 168K FS1 Mar 4 Sun 10pm Week2 ATL v DC 576K ESPN Mar 11 Sun 3pm RSL v LAFC 429K UNI Mar 10 Sat 330pm Week 3 NYCFC v OCSC 239k UNI Mar 17 Sat 330pm Week 4 FCD v Portland 198k UniMas Mar 24 Sat 330pm Week 5 OCSC v NYRB 171k UniMas Mar 31 Sat 1pm San Jose v NYCFC 115k ESPN2 Mar 31 Sat 8pm LAG v LAFC 676K FOX Mar 31 3 pm Sat Week 6 ATL v LAFC ESPN 259k Apr 7 Sat 5pm LAG v SKC FS1 229k Apr 8 Sun 9pm OCSC v Portland 181k ESPN Apr 8 Sun 4pm Week 7 Phil vs Orlando ESPN 253k Apr 13 Fri 8pm Chicago v LAG UNI 341k Apr 14 Sat 330 pm ATL UTD v NYCFC FS1 197k Apr 15 Sun 6 pm Sporting KC v Seattle ESPN 248k Apr 15 Sun 4 pm Week 8 Seattle v Minnesota ESPN 204k Apr 22 Sun 4 pm Portland v NYCFC FS1 152k Apr 22 Sun 6 pm NYRB v Chicago UNI 281k Apr 21 Sat 330 pm Week 9 Philly vs DCU Unimas 148k UniMas Sun Apr 28 330pm Colorado vs Orlando ESPN 173k Sun Apr 29 4pm LAFC vs Seattle FS1 248K Sun Apr 29 9pm Week 10 Toronto FC vs Seattle ?? FS1 Wed 5/9/18/ 730pm** LAFC vs FC Dallas 384k UNI Sat 5/5/18 155pm NYRB vs NYCFC 334k ESPN Sat 5/5/18 355pm Week 11 FCD vs LAG 395k UNI Sat 5/12/18 330pm Port vs Sea 231k ESPN Sun 5/13/18 400pm OCSC vs ATL UTD 285k FS1 Sun 5/13/18 600pm LAFC vs NYCFC 233k FS1 Sun 5/13/18 830pm Week 12 ATL UTD vs NYRB FS1 176k Sun 5/20/18 700 pm CHI vs Houston UniMas 239k Sun 5/20/18 400 pm ** Portland v LAFC FOX 465K Sat 5/19/18 300 pm Week 13 SKC vs Columbus FS1 144k Sun 5/27/18 600 pm Hou vs NYCFC UniMas 281k Fri 5/25/18 855pm LAG vs San Jose UDN 328k Fri 5/25/18 1055pm** Week 14 Port vs LAG ESPN2 272k Sat 6/2/18 5 pm SKC vs Minn UTD FS1???Sun 6/3/18 830pm Week 15 Columbus vs NYRB ESPN 292k Sat 6/9/18 5 pm Week 16 ATL UTD vs Portland FOX 1.074M Sun 6/24/18 400 pm NYRB vs FC Dallas UniMas169K Sat 6/23/18 600 pm** Week 17 SEA vs PORT FOX 1.159M Sat 6/30/18 430 pm ATL UTD vs OCSC ESPN 285K Sat 6/30/18 700 pm San Jose vs LAG UniMas 276 Sat 6/30/18 1000 pm Toronto FC vs NYRB FOX 1.109M Sun 7/1/18 505 pm Week 18 LAFC vs OCFC FS1 127K Sat 7/7/18 1100pm NYCFC vs NYRB FS1 ??? Sun 7/8/18 700pm Week 19 ATL UTD vs SEA FOX 1.558M Sun 7/15/18 200pm LAFC vs PORT ESPN 253k Sun 7/15/18 600pm Week 20 ATL UTD vs DC United UNI 341K Sat 7/21/18 330pm Week 21 OCFC vs NYCFC ESPN 176K Thur 7/26/18 800pm LAFC vs LAG ESPN 291K Thurs 7/26/18 1030pm SKC vs FC Dallas ESPN 211K Sat 7/28/18 900pm Seattle vs NYCFC ESPN 191K Sun 7/29/18 500pm LAG vs Orlando FS1 140K Sun 7/29/18 930pm Week 22 ATL UTD vs Toronto ESPN 207k Sun 8/5/18 400pm NYRB vs LAFC FS1 ??? Sun 8/5/18 600pm Week 23 Toronto FC vs NYRB ESPN ??? Sun 8/12/18 400pm DC United vs Orlando FS1 ??? Sun 8/12/18 800pm Seattle vs FC Dallas FS1 139k Sun 8/12/18 1000pm Week 24 LAFC vs RSL ESPN2 119K Wed 8/15/18 100pm Seattle vs LA Galaxy ESPN 239K Sat 8/18/18 730pm DCU vs NE Revs FS1 ??? Sun 8/19/18 730pm Week 25 NYCFC vs NYRB FS1 ??? Sun 8/22/18 700pm HOU vs FCD UniMas 244k Thurs 8/23/18 900pm OCFC vs ATL UTD ESPN 305k Fri 8/24/18 800pm LAG vs LAFC ESPN 257k Fri 8/24/18 1030pm Portland vs Seattle FS1 235k Sun 8/26/18 930pm NYRB vs DC United FS1 168k Sun 8/26/18 700pm Week 26 Seattle vs Sporting KC UniMas 196k 9/1/18 Sat 400pm DCU vs ATL UTD FS1 155K Sun 730pm 9/2/18 Sun 730pm Week 27 NYCFC vs DC United UniMas 377k 9/8/18 Sat 455pm Colorado vs ATL UTD UNI 290k 9/15/18 Sat 330pm Week 28 Chicago vs OCSC FS1??? 9/16/18 Sun 500pm DCU vs NYRB ESPN 216k 9/16/18 Sun 100pm Week 29 San Jose vs ATL UTD UniMas 246k Wed 1100pm LAFC vs San Jose 9/22/18 UNI 303k Sat 330pm LAG vs Seattle FS1 211k 9/23/18 Sun 700pm Philly vs SKC ESPN 184k 9/23/ Sun 100pm Week 30 CHI vs LAFC UNI 346k 9/29/18 Sat 330pm NYRB vs ATL UTD ESPN 263k 9/30/18 Sun 100pm SKC vs RSL FS1 131k 9/30/18 Sun 500pm Week 31 ATL UTD vs NE Revs UNI 276k 10/6/18 Sat 330pm DCU vs CHI ESPN 175k 10/7/18 Sun 100pm Week 32 Awaiting Numbers Week 33 ATL UTD vs Chicago Fire ESPN 168k 10/21/18 Sun 300pm Minn UTD vs LAG ESPN 136k 10/21/18 Sun 500pm Total Network Average 307.5k Average ESPN Networks 242.2k Average Fox Networks 390.1k Average Univision Networks 290.3k All ratings are sourced from the below sites http://www.showbuzzdaily.com (Search MLS or Major League Soccer) http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/?s=MLS http://worldsoccertalk.com/category/tv-ratings/
On the overall TV ratings foot there are 7 unreported FS1 numbers so playing with the averages if those games had at or just below the average of 184k on FS1 expect the Regular season average to be at 285-295k once MLS compiles and reports the Regular season average could be more or less because of the ESPN Deportes/FOX Deports additional viewing numbers don't always get reported because they often make up a small nominal amount of 20-40k in viewership. So with that said last year we finished at 258k so a Regular season average between 285-295k would be a 10-12% year to year TV rating increase.
This was my thought and what I was inquiring about. The other point was related to the flaw of averages. If MLS was up on both ESPN and ESPN2, then just because the average is down due to a greater amount of games on a lower subscribed network, it would still be a better year. As someone that watches almost nothing live (and thus click past 95% of most commercials), I still struggle with the TV advertising - I intellectually understand it is effective, but emotionally I wonder how. On the other hand, I know virtually every single ad on the highlights packages.
I'm just now realizing that today's games are all at the same time. Wish they'd done as last week with all eastern conference games first, then all western. But I guess if they're not on national coverage then it doesn't matter as much.
They cross promotes each other all year. Probably something in the contract that they trade off exclusive rights for decision day. Still a miss for the consumer. Even if they were split east west the both could have had a couple of interesting games to choose from.
These are probably league-endorsed TV numbers that were fed to SBJ (i.e., focus on cumulative audiences as opposed to averages), but it's nevertheless a decent summary of the 2018 season for MLS's broadcast partners: https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2018/10/29/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/MLS.aspx EDIT: The three main bullet points for the TV thread are: U.S. broadcast viewership for the 2018 season, which concluded on Sunday, is up 6 percent year-over-year, reaching more than 26 million viewers across all networks. Viewership on the Fox network, which televised five games, many of which were tied to World Cup coverage, was up 59 percent year-over-year, averaging 988,000 viewers. Univision saw a 14 percent growth in total viewers, averaging 287,000, marking its most-watched season to date. For ESPN, viewership in the 25-54 demographic is up 5 percent, and ESPN Deportes saw its best-ever viewership for MLS. In Canada, viewership on TSN and TVA both saw increases as well, up 29 percent and 6 percent year-over-year, respectively. This season also marked the third consecutive year that ad inventory for MLS matches was sold out. ESPN, Fox and Univision are also sold out for the playoffs, which start Wednesday, and for the MLS Cup, which is scheduled for Dec. 8.
I'm not sure if these are the official TV numbers release from the league as the League doesn't put those out til a few weeks in November. Looks like MLS Media exec throwing around some numbers before MLS does it's official release. Last year there was two different sets of numbers released and one was off by 15k. A quick glance tells me the numbers in this article are off as we have every Univision/Unimas TV rated game that was played. We know for a 100% fact the Univision/Unimas TV # is 290k. We didn't have the 8 FS1 game not including yesterdays FS1 game because the official viewing numbers aren't released until tomorrow. We we also missing 1 ESPN game. The more I think about it I think this is preliminary numbers. See below last years articles had one article reporting a different number from the actual official numbers. Still nice to see another year of steady growth onward upward MLS. Welcome Cinnci. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mls/2017/11/17/mls-attendance-up-tv-ratings-lag-as-us-mulls-future/107770250/ Dated Nov 17, 2017 ESPN averaged 272,000 for 30 telecasts this regular season on ESPN and ESPN2, and Fox averaged 236,000 for 33 broadcasts on FS1 and Fox. In addition, Univision is averaging 250,000 viewers for its Spanish-language MLS telecasts https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/med...ce-slight-uptick-in/xzu0158zao891v5alrv3vm9nn Dated Nov 15, 2017 ESPN: Viewership on ESPN and ESPN2 combined was slightly down in 2017. MLS matches on ESPN and ESPN2 averaged 272,000 viewers in 2017, compared to 274,000 in 2016. Fox: Fox and Fox Sports 1 combined to average a five percent increase in viewership in 2017 (236,000 average viewers in 2017 versus 224,000 in 2016). Univision: The league’s Spanish-language partner showed a five percent growth on numbers from matches on Univision and UniMas combined (265,000 in 2017 versus 252,000 in 2016). Dated Nov 20, 2017 https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/11/20/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/MLS.aspx ESPN: 272,00 FOX and Fox Sports 1: 236,000 Univision and UniMas: 265,000
I am pretty sure ESPN has done a NFL redzone type thing for decision day before. Did they not this year?
Note there was 1 game out of the 31 MLS games broadcast on ESPN/ESPN2 that did not have a released TV rating. There were 9 games out of the 33 MLS games broadcast on FOX/FS1 that did not have a released TV rating. All 25 games broadcast on Univision/Unimas had released TV ratings. MLS TV 2018 TV Ratings ESPN Networks FOX Networks Univision Networks Week 1 HOU v ATL 469K UNI March 3 Sat 330pm SEA v LAFC 456K ESPN Mar 4 Sun 5pm SKC v NYCFC 180K FS1 Mar 4 Sun 730 pm LAG v Port 168K FS1 Mar 4 Sun 10pm Week2 ATL v DC 576K ESPN Mar 11 Sun 3pm RSL v LAFC 429K UNI Mar 10 Sat 330pm Week 3 NYCFC v OCSC 239k UNI Mar 17 Sat 330pm Week 4 FCD v Portland 198k UniMas Mar 24 Sat 330pm Week 5 OCSC v NYRB 171k UniMas Mar 31 Sat 1pm San Jose v NYCFC 115k ESPN2 Mar 31 Sat 8pm LAG v LAFC 676K FOX Mar 31 3 pm Sat Week 6 ATL v LAFC ESPN 259k Apr 7 Sat 5pm LAG v SKC FS1 229k Apr 8 Sun 9pm OCSC v Portland 181k ESPN Apr 8 Sun 4pm Week 7 Phil vs Orlando ESPN 253k Apr 13 Fri 8pm Chicago v LAG UNI 341k Apr 14 Sat 330 pm ATL UTD v NYCFC FS1 197k Apr 15 Sun 6 pm Sporting KC v Seattle ESPN 248k Apr 15 Sun 4 pm Week 8 Seattle v Minnesota ESPN 204k Apr 22 Sun 4 pm Portland v NYCFC FS1 152k Apr 22 Sun 6 pm NYRB v Chicago UNI 281k Apr 21 Sat 330 pm Week 9 Philly vs DCU Unimas 148k UniMas Sun Apr 28 330pm Colorado vs Orlando ESPN 173k Sun Apr 29 4pm LAFC vs Seattle FS1 248K Sun Apr 29 9pm Week 10 Toronto FC vs Seattle ?? FS1 Wed 5/9/18/ 730pm** LAFC vs FC Dallas 384k UNI Sat 5/5/18 155pm NYRB vs NYCFC 334k ESPN Sat 5/5/18 355pm Week 11 FCD vs LAG 395k UNI Sat 5/12/18 330pm Port vs Sea 231k ESPN Sun 5/13/18 400pm OCSC vs ATL UTD 285k FS1 Sun 5/13/18 600pm LAFC vs NYCFC 233k FS1 Sun 5/13/18 830pm Week 12 ATL UTD vs NYRB FS1 176k Sun 5/20/18 700 pm CHI vs Houston UniMas 239k Sun 5/20/18 400 pm ** Portland v LAFC FOX 465K Sat 5/19/18 300 pm Week 13 SKC vs Columbus FS1 144k Sun 5/27/18 600 pm Hou vs NYCFC UniMas 281k Fri 5/25/18 855pm LAG vs San Jose UDN 328k Fri 5/25/18 1055pm** Week 14 Port vs LAG ESPN2 272k Sat 6/2/18 5 pm SKC vs Minn UTD FS1???Sun 6/3/18 830pm Week 15 Columbus vs NYRB ESPN 292k Sat 6/9/18 5 pm Week 16 ATL UTD vs Portland FOX 1.074M Sun 6/24/18 400 pm NYRB vs FC Dallas UniMas169K Sat 6/23/18 600 pm** Week 17 SEA vs PORT FOX 1.159M Sat 6/30/18 430 pm ATL UTD vs OCSC ESPN 285K Sat 6/30/18 700 pm San Jose vs LAG UniMas 276 Sat 6/30/18 1000 pm Toronto FC vs NYRB FOX 1.109M Sun 7/1/18 505 pm Week 18 LAFC vs OCFC FS1 127K Sat 7/7/18 1100pm NYCFC vs NYRB FS1 ??? Sun 7/8/18 700pm Week 19 ATL UTD vs SEA FOX 1.558M Sun 7/15/18 200pm LAFC vs PORT ESPN 253k Sun 7/15/18 600pm Week 20 ATL UTD vs DC United UNI 341K Sat 7/21/18 330pm Week 21 OCFC vs NYCFC ESPN 176K Thur 7/26/18 800pm LAFC vs LAG ESPN 291K Thurs 7/26/18 1030pm SKC vs FC Dallas ESPN 211K Sat 7/28/18 900pm Seattle vs NYCFC ESPN 191K Sun 7/29/18 500pm LAG vs Orlando FS1 140K Sun 7/29/18 930pm Week 22 ATL UTD vs Toronto ESPN 207k Sun 8/5/18 400pm NYRB vs LAFC FS1 ??? Sun 8/5/18 600pm Week 23 Toronto FC vs NYRB ESPN ??? Sun 8/12/18 400pm DC United vs Orlando FS1 ??? Sun 8/12/18 800pm Seattle vs FC Dallas FS1 139k Sun 8/12/18 1000pm Week 24 LAFC vs RSL ESPN2 119K Wed 8/15/18 100pm Seattle vs LA Galaxy ESPN 239K Sat 8/18/18 730pm DCU vs NE Revs FS1 ??? Sun 8/19/18 730pm Week 25 NYCFC vs NYRB FS1 ??? Sun 8/22/18 700pm HOU vs FCD UniMas 244k Thurs 8/23/18 900pm OCFC vs ATL UTD ESPN 305k Fri 8/24/18 800pm LAG vs LAFC ESPN 257k Fri 8/24/18 1030pm Portland vs Seattle FS1 235k Sun 8/26/18 930pm NYRB vs DC United FS1 168k Sun 8/26/18 700pm Week 26 Seattle vs Sporting KC UniMas 196k 9/1/18 Sat 400pm DCU vs ATL UTD FS1 155K Sun 730pm 9/2/18 Sun 730pm Week 27 NYCFC vs DC United UniMas 377k 9/8/18 Sat 455pm Colorado vs ATL UTD UNI 290k 9/15/18 Sat 330pm Week 28 Chicago vs OCSC FS1??? 9/16/18 Sun 500pm DCU vs NYRB ESPN 216k 9/16/18 Sun 100pm Week 29 San Jose vs ATL UTD UniMas 246k Wed 1100pm LAFC vs San Jose 9/22/18 UNI 303k Sat 330pm LAG vs Seattle FS1 211k 9/23/18 Sun 700pm Philly vs SKC ESPN 184k 9/23/ Sun 100pm Week 30 CHI vs LAFC UNI 346k 9/29/18 Sat 330pm NYRB vs ATL UTD ESPN 263k 9/30/18 Sun 100pm SKC vs RSL FS1 131k 9/30/18 Sun 500pm Week 31 ATL UTD vs NE Revs UNI 276k 10/6/18 Sat 330pm DCU vs CHI ESPN 175k 10/7/18 Sun 100pm Week 32 DC UTD vs FC Dallas UNI 336k 10/13/18 Sat 455pm Week 33 ATL UTD vs Chicago Fire ESPN 168k 10/21/18 Sun 300pm Minn UTD vs LAG ESPN 136k 10/21/18 Sun 500pm Total Network Average 308.082k Average ESPN Networks 242.167k Average Fox Networks 389.958k Average Univision Networks 292.120k All ratings are sourced from the below sites http://www.showbuzzdaily.com (Search MLS or Major League Soccer) http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/?s=MLS http://worldsoccertalk.com/category/tv-ratings/
No, they did not. The exclusive English-language network for Decision Day alternates from season to season. FS1 had rights this year, and they chose to interleave their game coverage of SKC-LAFC with highlights and live look-ins from the other DD games.
Slightly off-topic. The average Fox TV audience for the World Series was 14.3 million. Back in 1980, when the networks had a captive audience, it was close to 40 million! -Game 1: 13.8 million -Game 2: 13.5 million -Game 3: 13.3 million -Game 4: 13.6 million -Game 5: 17.3 million The lowest average was 13.9 million in 2014. About 240k watched online. The World Cup Final on Fox and FS1 averaged 11.3 million, down from 17.3 million on ABC in 2014. An additional 550k streamed online.
114k average for Impact games on TVA Sports this season. ⚽ Vous étiez en moyenne 114 000 partisans à suivre l'@impactmontreal à chaque match cette saison sur les ondes de TVA Sports, une augmentation de 11 % par rapport à l'an dernier. ⚽ Merci à toute la communauté #ImpactTVASports! pic.twitter.com/xQUFwVgxyd— TVA Sports (@TVASports) October 31, 2018
Good number the Sports Business Daily article said that TVA posted a 6% increase from 2017 so that means last years TV avg. was 107-108k. Do you have the TSN number that same article said TSN posted a 29% increase. MLS has to be pleased with the turn around in TV numbers north of the border. It wasn't too long ago in 2015 that there were murmurs that TSN wouldn't renew the MLS contract. Montreal's 2015 CCL run help change that along with the 2016 TFC-Impact playoff run and Toronto's MLS Cup run years. https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports...up-ratings-while-struggling-jays-numbers-drop The only TSN numbers I could find was this article midway thru last season in August saying that MLS on TSN was averaging 93k. The Canadian TV deal was renewed for 5 yrs in 2017 and expires the same time that the US contract does.
FC DALLAS / PORTLAND TIMBERS 114 on UND NYC FC/PHILADELPHIA UNION 102k on FS1 Does anybody have UniMas numbers?
I seem to remember playoff ratings on TV being higher than this. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly or maybe Halloween took its toll.