I totally agree EE. I think Fach is one of those guys who would probably be a better assistant or executive than head coach.
I'm sorry Uwe. I now hope SCF totally falls from the top three!!! You think so? I'm sorry man, but I'm not really impressed by Allagui at all. In my opinion, he has "First Bundesliga Bust" written all over him. I think he should stay right where he is. Congrats on Lobouè. I read about his extension yesterday.
I think the higlighted quote is a bit harsh. Here's why.... To be fair, at RWE he took them to promotion to the 2.BL (though they were on their way anyway). At BMG they were in relegation trouble when he arrived and they saved it in the first year; the second year he was fired 8 rounds into the season for going up and down in mid table. Wolfsburg I would definately agree that he turned wine into water. They were pretty good the year before he arrived and he managed to plunge them into relegation problems. After that he went clubless for a full year or more until Paderborn picked him up. I think his time at Paderborn was to be expectedly poor. They were recently promoted, had a good first year in the 2.BL and then mgmt brought in Fach thinking that a "BL Manager" could pull a Ragnick and stablize them. Problem was that the club did not spend to get the right players and they were in relegation trouble from the first game that season. Honestly, he should have been gone in Oktober or November but mgmt waited until Feb. At FCA I think the expectations were similar to those at Paderborn; though FCA has been more willing to bring in talent (see Baier move, etc.). I honestly think it is less that Fach is the wrong coach and more that FCA saw an opportunity to bring in Lukhay earlier and get that new manager "bump" to get them out of relegation danger. However I could see your argument that FCA are in a potential relegation battle right now. I think he will make someone a good 2.BL manager (Wehen or another in-danger club). My guess is it will take several months and he will get a new job this time next year....this seems to be his pattern.
I think it's going to be quite awhile before anyone hands Holger Fach another job. At least before anyone with any brains does. I liked your points, but what EE wrote is "the word" on him over here. Or do you mean you think Stevic will be stupid enough to hire Fach instead of keeping Wolf???
Could be. Look at his employment record. Clearly he is one of those "Fruehling Loesungs" and not someone's first choice. I think any 3.BL team or a troubled 2.BL team might bring him in. If the "word" on him is that he is poison, that's another story. But clearly his record is not as bad as some other coaches who continue to club hop with similar or worse records. An organ-grinder's monkey has more sense than Stevic. That said, I would not put ANYTHING past him in terms of stupidity. Hell, if 1860 announced today that Stevic had been in secret negotiations with Fach to bring him on as coach I would not be surprised. Stevic is THAT stupid!!!
Take your pick from the swath of coaches fired in the last season. There are several there with similar or worse records.
I don't have the time to go digging for that now. I'll take your word for it. But let me put it to you this way. Matthias Sammer was one of the worst coaches at the top level I ever saw. But he managed to win a title and fooled a lot of people along the way. He would have had another job (Leverkusen), but he finally realized what he was even if everyone else didn't. Holger Fach? Dude, he fooled a lot of people too....... You can add Thomas Doll to that category.
I GAVE you his record above. Hell, fussballdaten.de has it easy to see. It is not all that bad and certainly not in line with having brought every club he has coached into relegation battles. Not saying is any Helmut Schoen, but he ain't shiite either. As I said, he has the talent to make a decent 3.BL or troubled 2.BL team a decent coach. Are you saying he sucks so bad that not even 3.BL teams should touch him? If so, why? What does he do that is soooo bad? If his teams keep revolting on him then fine. But I have not heard that about him.
That is exactly what happens. What man, do you think I'm saying this stuff merely to disagree with you? Fach is one of those guys who can get a team going at first, but he eventually loses them as soon as the team figures out he's clueless. He's a motivator who isn't good at actual coaching/teaching. As far as his record, you didn't give me anything! You reckoned he has as good as or a better record than some guys who get hired for lower jobs. They don't have his trainer's record listed at Fussballdaten on the page I'm looking at. Player stats, yes, trainer records no. And I don't mean his "erfolge", I mean his actual win-draw-loss record. I suppose I could go into each season and count the matches between his listed trainer dates, but I don't have that kind of time. Which is what I referred to to begin with. And we definitely disagree on whether this guy is a shit coach or not. Even when Augsburg was "hot", there was no doubt where they would eventually wind up. Fach has done it everywhere. Luhukay? Despite the 70's porn look he prefers, that guy is a coach. Not the greatest coach, but at least a good one. Fach, at least in my opinion, is little more than a joke. I think Fach would be a good "fireman". If you need a good three or four months, Fach is your man. If you're looking for a good, long-term solution, leave this guy alone. But like you said, guys like Fach keep getting jobs. That cannot be disputed. As far as if he would make a lower 2nd Bundesliga club or a 3rd Bundesliga club a good coach, that depends on what they want. If they want to remain where they are or don't care about falling lower, then yeah, Fach is their man. If they want to move up, they shouldn't touch this guy with a ten-foot pole.......
Sometimes. That's all you had to say. I have not read any dirt on his teams revolting on him, but if that is the poop on him just say so.
OK. I don't see so many who go through four jobs in five seasons, but if you know, I bow to you on that one.
But Keith, look at the teams. It's specious reasoning to say "well, the guy has been through 4 teams in 5 seasons" and then link that to the allegation he sucks. Sure it LOOKS like he sucks, and in fact he may just suck, but when you look at the teams, their situations, etc., there is also more there. Now, couple the 4 teams in 5 seasons with what you NOW say (that he alienates his teams, which has NOT been widely reported in the footy press that I have seen), THEN your allegation become clear. But for those of us who did not have all that information, jumping on the "he sucks" bandwagon seemed a bit premature. I can only comment from the info I have.
Of course there is. However, have you known me to just look at numbers and say "he sucks?" Garry, I just don't have time to lay everything out anymore. I thought you'd know better than to think I'd just rag on a guy based on simple numbers. Trust me, I've done my work on Fach, I just don't have time to put it all out there. This isn't a "fun disagreement." Fach blows. I really can't stress it any more than that. See above. And maybe he's gotten so many jobs because too many managers read the press instead of doing their homework. That does happen here. One thing Fach is is popular. With the press and with managers. He just can't seem to keep a team focused for an entire season.
Evidently there are more stupid, illiterate managers in German football who do not hear the same things you do. That is what is surprising to me. Seems more managers should be let go if that is the case.
Actually, yes, there should be. However, usually, the coaches take the blame. But I can tell you with Fach, this was never the case. He's just a bad freakin' coach if you want someone to keep you good long-term man.......
Fr 17.04.09 / 18:00 FC Augsburg - VfL Osnabrück -:- (- 1. FSV Mainz 05 - Rot-Weiss Ahlen -:- (- Hansa Rostock - Rot-Weiß Oberhausen -:- (- So 19.04.09 / 14:00 SV Wehen Wiesbaden - SpVgg Greuther Fürth -:- (- 1. FC Nürnberg - FC St. Pauli -:- (- MSV Duisburg - TuS Koblenz -:- (- Alemannia Aachen - FSV Frankfurt -:- (- SC Freiburg - FC Ingolstadt 04 -:- (- Mo 20.04.09 / 20:15 1860 München - 1. FC Kaiserslautern -:- (-
Mainz continues to drop points at home, whereas Ahlen surprised again on the road against a top team (after the draw in Freiburg). Rostock (3rd win in a row) and Augsburg (first victory in 2009) with very important home wins. Mainz - Ahlen 0:0 (0:0) http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/spielpaarungsbericht/object/863951 Rostock - Oberhausen 3:1 (2:1) http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/spielpaarungsbericht/object/863953 Augsburg - Osnabrück 3:0 (2:0) http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/spielpaarungsbericht/object/863949
A Wehen/Wiesbaden goal was wrongly called off (it was no offside). Surely very bitter for the hosts in their situation (they fighted like lions for their last chance) ... but also certainly not the first wrong offside decision in the history of soccer. Here's today's results: Nürnberg - St. Pauli 2:0 (1:0) Wehen Wiesb. - Fürth 0:1 (0:1) Duisburg - Koblenz 2:3 (1:1) Freiburg - Ingolstadt 3:2 (2:0) Aachen - Frankfurt 2:0 (0:0) http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/tabelle
Thanks to LB and "Borussia" for your SVWW v GF responses. As you both know, I want both FCN and GF to go to the 1st Bundesliga, but not like that.....