Carleton is the only player in this U-20 pool who I've seen dominate matches (besides very low level matches that they can all dominate at). He consistently influences goals and assists from a game to game standpoint, something most attacking mids his age can't. I personally don't believe its close between him and second place in the U-20 player pool, so spot 1 to spot 8 is a big gap. The media won't even mention Pomykal, but I don't subscribe to their opinions. Pomykal is highly skilled, and from an attacking mid standpoint is the second most influential attacking mid in this U-20 player pool, IMO. At slightly lower levels that I've seen him play at, he's near unplayable. Even in preseason, he's looked really good with the first team. He's gotten a raw deal when it comes to playing time. Its not much, and even when he gets it, its erratic. Hard to get into a rhythm when you are used in such a weird fashion. I tend to think he's done better than he gets credit for. His teammates have missed some good chances he's set up. He's also been unlucky with some injuries. My opinions tend to give preference towards skill at all positions (why I have Soto higher than Sargent among CF's). Sargent's ball skills at CF are average, nor is he exceptionally athletic. He's a box CF who needs service. He doesn't make enough plays for me to rank him higher. He's a good player. There is a place for his type of game in the USMNT player pool, if he continues to show well. I just don't see a particularly high ceiling player, unless it comes from purely his finishing that results in an incredibly high scoring rate. Those players are valuable, but for every Harry Kane, there's a lot more youth prospects like Joe Gallardo who was known for his goal rate and finishing, but amounted to nothing (not that I'm saying Gallardo is actually comparable in ability to Sargent).
For uncapped players, based on ultimate ceiling. No Gks, no dualies that haven't played for us lately. 1. Bello 2. Amon 3. Ledezma 4. Llanez 5. Mendez 6. Reyna 7. Richards 8. Soto 9. Judge 10. Carleton 11. Hoffman 12. Haak 13. Booth 14. Taitague 15. Z. Jones 16. Duke 17. Durkin 18. Pomykal 19. Araujo 20. Gloster Others of note: Cannon, Lindsey, Dest, Glad, Lopez
OK, I think I see where you're coming from in that you're valuing ceiling a lot in your rankings and do agree that Carleton does show some magic on the ball at times, even though he seems to be inconsistent at the USL level right now. Just a couple other follow ups: Do you think that Carleton not being the most athletic player either could be a hindrance to his development as well? (He's been pretty up front in interviews that he isn't the highest level athlete as well) At what point do you think Carleton and Pomykal need to start showing more production/advancement before they will start to slide down the list for you?
I don't think Carleton is inconsistent in USL. He just can't play his game in that league. He doesn't even end up taking up the positions of an attacking mid. Atlanta is pinned in their own end the whole game, and he's playing more like a #8 midfield distributor type of player. I've never seen him so non-existent in creating attacking chances. Considering he's done very well for Atlanta's first team, I think the USL play is more about the environment than anything. He's also the type of player that needs players around him who can understand his decisions, players who play a possession style of game. In that Atlanta reserve team, that doesn't happen. Its typical lower league football. As mentioned above, Carleton has actually been really good for Atlanta's first team when he's played. He is producing, but he doesn't play much. At some point, he'll get a chance to play regularly. Keep in mind, for all the negativity surrounding his playing time situation, only Durkin and Lindsey among players from that U-17 WC team have played more first team pro minutes than Carleton. Pomykal is a different situation. He hasn't been as good as Carleton in his limited first team appearances, but I see some good play, and I think it has a lot to do with a lack of rhythm, along with getting unlucky. These players are all still learning the game. Most skilled/talented is still what I'll go by. Once they've played a year or two in the pro game (of regular minutes), thats about the point they have to produce. If Pomykal the next two seasons plays regularly and doesn't produce, I'll change my opinion. Right now, I tend to think he's a very underrated player who people will start to talk about more often once Pareja lets him onto the field consistently. My opinion doesn't necessarily mean anything either. Feel free to disagree.
Honestly there was no agenda or answers I was looking for with the questions. Just looking for some clarity/discussion.
Lets see.... 1. Carleton 2. Sargent 3. Adams 4. Weah 5. Amon 6. Pomykal 7. Soto 8. Acosta 9. Durkin 10. Konrad Fuente 11.Lindsey 12. Taitague 13. Gloster 14. Richards 15. Booth 16. Llanez 17. Ledezma 18. Goslin 19. Mckenzie 20. Sands Didn't add younger players cause there isn't really to.
Alright, I’ve been planning on giving this a go for a bit and if I don’t do it soon I’ll probably forget. So here goes. I mentioned that I prefer overall lists that rank all prospects, regardless of age. I’ve mentioned before that I’m a pretty big sports fan and in other sports, they don’t usually separate prospects into age classes. For instance, Brendan Rodgers has been a top 5 Rockies prospect for something like 3 years, ever since he hit 19 home runs in 110 games in single a (!). So it’s very common for rookie and single a prospects to be ranked higher than triple-a prospects just because the younger guys have “a higher ceiling.” So that’s how I’m looking at this list. I’m also trying to look at this as prospects and not players who have established or are in the process of establishing themselves as pros already (i.e. no Adams, McKennie, etc.) 1. Nyeman 2. Carleton 3. Rotundo 4. Bello 5. Sargent 6. Weah 7. Soto 8. Ledezma 9. Konrad 10. Amon 11. Richards 12. Reyna 13. Mendez 14. Ocampo-Chavez 15. Llanez 16. Durkin 17. Pomykal 18. Araujo 19. Booth 20. Taitague A couple notes... We all know that we are seriously lacking good attacking talent with the senior team right now. I put a higher value on attacking players for that reason. I also put a higher value on potential than I do on accomplishments. There are a lot of 04s and 05s I haven’t seen enough to put on this list. I also expect Rotundo to be at the top of this list in the next year or two, but we have to see how he develops. For now, I’m pretty comfortable with Nyeman at the top. I think this is the third time I’ve done a list in this thread. The one thing I can say is the names are fluid and constantly changing. It is getting much, much more difficult to put decide on these names, much less put them in some sort of order.
It is hard to stop at 20. I know after I tried, there were obvious ones I know I missed. I hope that our potential pool is bigger than it has been historically and it is not just greater amount of information available. If Adams does move in January, that would be a watershed moment. No American has done DA/USL/MLS/Top 4 before. He is going to do it over 18 months or something like that. Davies, also rose and was sold quickly. I think we are going to see our domestic based elite talent emerge quickly. There will be late developers and many more MLS lifers, who will take time. There will be ones who maybe could have been elite but chose college (Sean Davis). But the best ones will quickly conquer every level they are brought up to, just like in baseball, at a generally younger age. That is why I ranked Bello above Carleton for instance. We have 1000s of posts on why Carleton is not starting. But he isn't. He is not quickly conquering MLS. Bello is younger, and already beyond USL. I'm not sure if European based players have to break through as quickly. McKennie and Pulisic are probably lucky outliers. But if Sargent does break in as a teenager, then maybe the same time line applies to kids over there as over here. I do think European based players can develop later. For instance, Haji Wright could still take two years but be only, what, 23-24 and playing in a Top 4 league or doing well in Holland and generally on the same track as Altidore or Wood have done. I think 23-24 in MLS is not an elite track except for possibly GK or a CB or a once in 50 years outlier.
Imo the only thing that matters is where they are when we start the qualifying process. If they are in a good club situation where they play consistently, then they will earn themselves a look. I personally prefer to evaluate players with my eyes and not based on their club level or status, but I know a lot of people prefer the latter.
I don’t really agree. Again, I trust my eyes. I’m not a coach and I’m not in NT camps so I’m never going to have a fully informed opinion on this. But watching a player time after time make mistake after mistake, regardless of what team he is playing for, would cause me to bench or not call up that player. Case in point... DeAndre Yedlin. He was pretty bad in the attacking end against Brazil. The “he plays in the premier league” argument doesn’t win you games. Making good passes, crosses, and creating goals do. I don’t see him enough to say whether he is better at Newcastle, but I haven’t been impressed with him in his NT performances recently. Now this isn’t the best example because I don’t really have anyone in mind to replace him. Also, he’s been pretty good defensively, but I’d certainly be looking at someone like Moore or Cannon awfully hard in training to see if one of them could be better. And I would have no problem benching a premier league player if I thought it meant we had a better chance to win with someone else, regardless of what team he played for.
But what are your eyes seeing? Is it possible that Yedlin succeeds at Newcastle, in the EPL, because the tactical set up is one he can succeed in? To take small sample sizes in a tactical system Dave Sarachan dreamed up and throw out all the stuff Yedlin is doing in the EPL is lunacy. If Cannon is good enough to play at Yedlin's level, he will be bought. Maybe you are early, but we've never seen him play for the USMNT. Seems to me a case of shiny new toy. Your position is basically that you can tell who is the best better than the collective professional soccer coaches and technical directors in the world. There are no undiscovered diamonds or Messi's hanging around MLS waiting to be called into a USMNT January camp to set the world on fire. The few real talents are being bought quickly all the time. Alphonso Davies didn't need to spend 6 years in MLS to be bought by Munich. Adams will have spend 18 months in MLS. You are simply not going to pull in a 25 year old with 5 years in MLS and find out they are an order of magnitude better than the entire world thought.
he's a mid to lower-mid table premier league starter. not sure what you expected from him. he was never going to be dani alves.
My position is not that I can tell who is best better than coaches or scouts, it’s that I just usually don’t care what they think. There is a difference. I rely on the guys on BS and Twitter to an extent, because that’s how I learn about the players. Sometimes, the coaches and scouts help with that. But as far as analysis goes, I have no problem disagreeing with anyone. I don’t care if it’s Real Madrid or Houston Dynamo. We are all wrong at least 10-20% of the time and we all have guys we like who turn into good players, as well as guys who we go to battle for who never amount to anything. I generally agree with your point tho... There are not usually undiscovered diamonds who haven’t been given a chance. But there are a few good players who are late developers and don’t get a chance until they’ve proven themselves in MLS. And yes, it is possible that Yedlin is kind of being left on an island with the NT and that Newcastle is a more suitable place for his talent, but that doesn’t mean that we need to cater our national team around our right back. We need to do what’s best for the team, not for one player. I didn’t mean to insinuate Cannon would be better. I don’t know if he would. I just wouldn’t be opposed to someone else getting an extended look. Yedlin can’t connect with our attackers, either by cross or, often times, simple passes. He kills a lot of attacks.
I always regretted not going out on a limb on Pulisic before his meteoric rise. So, I'm just gonna say what I think. Antonee Robinson will be our best left back ever. That's not saying much so I'll add this. He'll be as good or better as Cherundolo was for right back. He has it all. Speed, ability, and has a singular ability to pick out a pass to the open man when he's high and wide. Still needs work defensively to match the top tier of teams.
He looks like he struggles with quick technical players like Costa and Lainez. That’s something he can overcome if he works on it. I have to say, I thought when I chose my name a few years ago that I’d be pretty safe, especially when you consider our history. But if Robinson and Bello pan out, I may have to find a new one