I get what you all are saying, and I'm very anti-violence, despite all my joking around... but, you know how the Mexican fans were pelting you guys in NY and pelting the players at the Azteca with beer and other liquids? Are you saying that if that was a pattern of behavior from a rival team's supporters, you wouldn't eventually consider retaliation?
I would always refrain from hitting people for a disagreement over sports. Mexico fans, however, aren't people. They're dogs.
I'm assuming that people are referring to Mexican fans as dogs purely in the spirit of rivalry trash talk. As a die-hard USMNT supporter, I love the rivalry with Mexico and hate the Mex nat team like I hate the Mets and Red Bulls. But, whereas I can't say I have a problem calling Mets fans dogs, I think calling Mexican fans dogs is different. Unfortunately, there are people in the US who truly believe that Mexicans are less than human. In that context, I think it's important to distinguish ourselves by not using the same language that those people might use.
I'm sure you know that not all Mexican fans are the same. Granted, I wouldn't like the use of dog as an insult for individuals either, but the generalization is where I really disagree with it. Call it political correctness if you want to. What's wrong with being intentional about not playing into the hands of racists? I'm not about being PC in the sense of covering up unpleasantness like racism with polite language. I'm about fighting against it. In this case, I'll settle for encouraging cool people to think about how their comments might soften the ground for racists.
You make a logical point, let me counter with one of my own. The night of August 12, the Phillies were playing the Cubs in Chicago. Shane Victorino went twords the centerfield wall to make a catch, and a drunken fan threw his beer at him. The result? The fan is arrested, and banned from Wrigley, IIRC. That same day, Landon Donovan sets up for a corner kick at Estadio Azteca in the 80th minute, and is pelted with debris ranging from cans and bottles to literally bags of vomit and urine. The result : Nothing. No one spoke of it in the media. No one spoke of it from CONCACAF. No one even had squat to say from FIFA. In this stadium, in 2005, the fans started a loud chant of "Osama!" and nothing is said. If there was any accountability at all, it would be one thing. I'm getting really annoyed that their fans can throw fecal matter at my team, and cheer for the most notorious mass murderer in US history, but somehow if I chant about a lawnmower, or say "Limpiada me piso" I'm somehow crossing the line. The small group of American fans that travelled to Azteca had to be supervised by armed guards with weapons drawn, for gods sake. Tell me the last time, even for our reputation, that the police had to have drawn weapons to protect away fans at any sports game of any league in America? Our stadiums are relitively clear between the first row and the playing surface. At Azteca, there is steel fencing topped by razor wire. Why is that? I'm all for respecting people from other cultures, but until Mexican soccer fans knock this shit off once and for all, they ARE below life as I know it, in a strict football sense. I have absolutely no problem with the Mexican people. The Mexicans I know are hard working, dedicated people who care for their families and try to do the right thing. Mexican soccer fans, however, have demonstrated themselves time and time again to be classless pieces of trash, even bigger than the crap they throw onto the pitch time and time again.
Thanks for having my back, Jim. I don't hate Mexico fans because they're Mexican. I hate them because they're assholes.
When people puke in a cup and throw it at our players, and the tacit approval is given by a silent confederation and National teams offices, someone has to speak out about the disgusting, pre running water attitudes prevalent in the stands - cavemen, dogs, subhuman, etc Calling behavior what it is shouldn't be seen as anything more than it is. The fans in Mexico throw vomit, piss, and shit - like animals - and no one does anything about it. Even zookeepers and asylum workers try to train their charges to act better.
Think of it this way... In which of the following scenarios are you more likely to be hit with urine and fecal matter... 1) Walking past the monkey cages in the zoo 2) Taking a corner kick in the Azteca I think that CONCACAF should issue an edict that national teams can be docked points for their fans behavior. That will never happen, of course, but the crap our boys have to put up with goes way beyond sub human. Could you imagine what would happen if the Mexican National Team was pelted with urine, vomit, and feces when playing in the USA? Forget that it would never happen, and US Soccer would come down like a hammer for it, but just think for a second... Could you imagine the reaction of their players and fans? They would be acting like it is the disgusting crime that it is, but only because it happened to them.
I hear what you're sat I can't imagine this was the first time that there things have happened. I can't research it now on my phone on campus, but what was the reaction of a non-US team when it happened to them?
I'm just as disgusted and outraged by that behavior as anyone here. But, if you read the thread where US fans who went there report their experience, you'll notice that they say repeatedly that most of the Mexico fans they met were friendly, welcoming people. That majority of fans agrees that the behavior in the stands was unacceptable. The US fans also reported Mexico fans in the stands trying to get other Mexicans to stop throwing things. Also, the Mexican announcers on the Spanish language channel criticized the fans when they threw things at Donovan saying it has no place at a soccer game (or something to that effect). Of course, none of this excuses the deplorable behavior of some of the Mexico fans. It's just not accurate to paint all Mexico fans with the same brush or to say that the bad behavior is accepted widely. How would any of you feel about saying that Mexico fans are not human if you were standing next to a Mexico fan in the River End for a Union game? How do you think he/she would feel? Some might brush it off, but others might object, and I think rightfully so. I'm not trying to be the thought police. I'm trying to have a mature discussion on the topic without attacking anyone or getting defensive myself. I hope that comes across. My apologies that I didn't respond to all of the concerns raised. There were some good points I don't have time to get into right now.
When Eagles fans boo Michael Irvin, pelt Santa with snowballs, Phils fans hit JD Drew with batteries, people say Philadelphians are animals, not Joe Smith of Fishtown and his cohorts. Fans are representatives of the team/city/country they support and their actions color people's perception. I'm not saying I hate Javier Aguirre of Ciudad de Mexico, I am saying I hate them collectively in the stadium and post match.
Very true. But count me as one who resents it when Philly fans are lumped together and demonized in the media. Although I have to say that from what I hear Santa really deserved to be booed.
I've heard of different Union supporter groups around the city and surrounding areas. 13th ward out of Fishtown,Northern Lights Brigade from the Frankford and Cottman area of NE Philly, maybe they are just soccer fans who are gonna go to the games as a group.