Its amazing how FIFA has disregard some top performers in favor of their "ideal" brand of football and Messi has been at the forefront of it. In 2010 Wesley Sneijder won the champion's league with Inter Milan, took Holland to a World cup final. Messi on the other hand, failed to live up to expectation and even then, he won the title of best player... I dont know about you lot but i smell a rat.. Here is an article i found showing some of the new players in the EPL who might be a tad underrated: http://www.soccerreport.com/hidden-gems-the-top-5-most-underrated-new-arrivals-in-the-epl/
4-2-3-1 Formation. Goal Keeper Casillas, Rightback: Sergio Ramos ,Left back: Paolo Madini, Centre Backs: Franco Baresi and Franz Beckenbauer but seriously I don't think I should be putting my 10 cents worth as I don't know much about defenders. Defensive mid and centre mid : Frank Rijkaard and Xavi Hernandez Left wing: I hate him but I can't deny C.Ronaldo is one of the best ever. Right wing: Andres Iniesta CAM/2nd striker: Messi: He can provide assists he is creative and can score goals. I will let him be my 2nd striker. Striker: Pele. The man could score goals. I think Messi is better but I want Messi behind him. Rijkaard is a good defender. If any of the defenders such as the right back and left back want to come forward like what we see at Barca I feel that will be fine so long as they both don't at the same time. Iniesta and Messi can drop back and pretend to be midfielders at times. Xavi is a player who has the ability to score goals. Overall this line up can: create confusion and a wide range of options. It contains proven goal scorers and proven defenders while at the sametime providing security with ball control and good passers
I do not disagree nor against your choice ... But the statement in bold is just not quite well proven with fact. Rijakaard had even a better goal record than Xavi ... If you want Xavi scoring goal, in average you have to wait 9,10 games .... LOL (and WC or Euro only got 7 at most)
Since this is a take on the greatest players of all time, what do you think about this statement on Messi/Ronaldo and modern players?
I tend to disagree with the 2nd to last paragraph, and would cite the 2010 World Cup as an example of a tournament where both in their primes generally speaking were in games of Association Football that they didn't dominate! Maybe it wasn't meant in such a literal way. Anyway, I'd disagree with the general premise too I think but with less certainty. I never think of the nutrition and fitness as being so relevant when supposing the players were playing in the same era - I'd prefer to think of the player having the same benefits after a period of a few weeks or months adjustment anyway and I would suggest that players were always fully 'match fit' in any case. If the question was what would happen if older players were literally taken from their own era and asked to play without adjustment then perhaps they would tire more though and have to pace themselves more towards the end of the game. I can't prove it but I would think they could still perform pretty much to their best level with a similar effect as they had in their own eras even in that scenario though - the fitness would be good enough to give a platform for the talent to show I would think personally.
I know this discussion is largely dead, but I'd rather it wasn't sidetracked too much here by the Messi/Ronaldo debate. Feel free to open another thread to cover.
Agree 100%. Plus the whole premise is useless if it were true, as the best player six years from now would automatically be the greatest of all time...and so on.
I'd like to add that modern fitness (medical science?) and protection helps to lengthen the career of players, at least at peak level and/or elite level. Though I have the greatest respect for Cristiano Ronaldo and what he has made out of relatively unfortunate circumstances (living at 'isolated' Madeira until the age of 12, and also Sporting Lisbon has played second fiddle to Porto and Benfica for ages). In general, the harmonization of football and increasing convergence in conditions help the very best to stand out. Finally, apart from 'protection' also the tendency of good players to play with fellow supreme players levels down the intensity during regular games, as well as the frequency of physical contact (because by playing with other elite athletes more space and movement opens up which decreases the amount of contact, the wear and tear, although increased strength and speed of athletes increases the propensity). Cf. the common argument of how Madrid and/or Barca provide that few metres of space for the superstars to perform (as expressed by Sacchi or Cruyff). Personally I am a believer in the incommensurable properties of eras. The debate whether players are more prone to injuries or less prone to (contact or muscle) injuries - to start with - is an endless one and not settled by experts in the field. It is interesting though where the transitions to a different era are located (and whether one can find eras matching a certain ideal type). We also don't know how Pelé would react to modern medical treatment and such. See the famous examples of highly talented athletes who do not react at all when injected with energetic banned substances (doping) while others do react to a large degree. Not every human body reacts in the same manner to the same stimuli (hope this is clear). Example: HGH makes on average ill people larger and stronger as 'healthy' people without injected HGH but it is an average - not every human will react the same to HGH, maybe some would still feel a deficiency with HGH injected.
You're correct that Heskey could knock Scirea clear up in the NEST... Seriously, Heskey gets a load of stick because he wasn't Michael Owen. But, that wasn't his job on the pitch IMHO...
I guess the "nest" sounds better than the net huh? Agree ... Owen is a pure striker or goal scoring FW. Heskey was more of a (general) out and out striker who could hold up the ball for others to come in and score
Moore marking Heskey in a match would've been an interesting proposition because it's often forgotten that Moore was a better "card-carrying" (W-M-mould) centre-half than people tend to remember. Moore was even capped by England in that role on at least one occasion...
Sorry, my post about Heskey was meant to be sarcastic (humorous)... ...in response to the ridiculous belief that today's footballers are far superior to the legends of past era's. P.S I am a fan of Emile Heskey.
We know and joke too However I totally agree with your last statement. Better, far superior or worse are just relative terms and they would be used in different scenarios .... We can not just "generalize" simply like that. For example, Pele was surely "far superior" than your Heskey but no one would say all players in the 60's were far better than now! In otehr hand Messi, CR7 now are surely better or far better than say .. G. Hurst in the 60's .. But it ain't mean "today Footballers" are better than before
On goalies, Antonio "Cinco Copas" Carbajal should make your top 100, if nothing more for participating in a record 5 World Cups. Granted, he played for Mexico, so he also owns the record for most goals against in WC history.
I think great players would be great players in any era.. But the standard of football up until the mid 60s was dire in general..i know that might upset some people but it was.. Has anyone seen the 1958 world cup final ? Garrincha or stanley mathews wouldnt get a kick against maldini and his like.. I suppose nowadays the pitches are perfect carpets and boots and kits are lightweight in comparison to yester year but football has become more difficult due to fitness tactics and professionalism.. So based on those facts my all time team would be.....1. Buffon 2.jorginho 3.baresi 4.scriea 5.maldini 6.falcao 7.zidane 8.platini (socrates) 9.ronaldo r9 10.zico(ronaldinho) 11. Maradona.....
Great team, and we must be the only posters here who appreciate Jorginho as an all-time great. Just replace Ronaldo with a Romario or Van Basten or Messi and you have a perfect side. Good shout on Socrates too. @giles varley