Re: The 100 Greatest Goalkeepers of All Time I've never seen Yashin directly playing either but he was the greatest. We can judge when a player is great just by the degree of dominance & the impact exerted on his era. And there never was a goalie who dominated his epoch for so long & so absolutely like the Black Spider. Goal-keeping wise he was (is) THE LEGEND.
Agustin Cejas, an idol at Racing Club, a Copa Libertadores and Intercontinental cup winner, was another great one from my childhood days. He also played at Santos with Pele for some time, as you mention, and was highly respected in Brazil. He is another Argentine goalkeeper who was solid all around and might possibly merit consideration for being a top 100 pick, although he was behind the likes of Roma, Gatti, Santoro, Carnevali and Fillol in the national team hierarchy. We did have an amazing wealth of goalkeepers back then. Sergio Goycochea had a spectacular world cup in 1990, and was a great penalty stopper and good shot blocker in general, but his overall career is not impressive enough to merit mention among the very best. I wouldn't rank him ahead of Nery Pumpido.
I'd say Seaman too but I agree with comme on that issue. He wasn't like Banks or Shilton. I don't know what Pumpido was like for River Plate but I didn't think he was too great for Argentina. Maybe I remember his error against Cameroon at Italia 90 but the only thing I really liked about him was his goal kicks. His goal kicks are amongst the biggest I've seen. Southall is the only Welsh one I'd know about. I haven't checked Kelsey's ranking but I wouldn't place him near Southall. The Northern Irish at least had Gregg before Jennings. Rough was a shocking keeper. Scotland's opponents at the 1982 World Cup had a picnic because of him, especially that famous Brazilian team. I don't mind Gordon. IMO, I do feel that we are going through a weak era for goalies. Aside from Buffon, Casillas and Julio Cesar, most goalies are mediocre. Cech hasn't been as highly-rated as he was before that head injury. Even though VDS has been doing well in the EPL, I hold too many grudges against him.
Fillol at end of career excelling for Flamengo - in spite of the score (not his guilt in any of the 4 goals) . Rare footage: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTctdfhW_WA"]YouTube- CORINTHIANS 4X1 FLAMENGO 06/05/1984[/ame]
So if I was to do this list again in ten years how do you think it would change? Who would be in and who would be higher?
Julio Cesar would be in and possibly Buffon at #1. Maybe you have put in Shay Given too despite a lack of silverware.
I'd think that Cech might well feature as well. Probably very premature but Lloris looks like he could be a real prospect. I would have thought that Casillas could move up into the top 10 or around there as well.
Re: The 100 Greatest Right-backs of All Time Dont you think it would be better if we discuss about each right back you put, impact on the game they had, their style...etc instead of just naming all of them until number one? Im not attacking you, this is a great thread man, but I think it would be better with my suggestion. Your choice.
Re: The 100 Greatest Right-backs of All Time Discussing leads to debating, which later leads to arguing, and considering there's 100 people to put up, many of us don't want to spend 50 yearswriting in the same thread.
Re: The 100 Greatest Right-backs of All Time I absolutely want plenty of discussion about these, but if we can keep it in this thread it would be appreciated. I want to keep the list threads as clear as possible in order to make them easy for reference purposes.
Re: The 100 Greatest Right-backs of All Time I think Comme has been inclusive in the discussion, that there is no doubting, so just let him discuss his selections in this thread. There isn't a need for him to do more than name them in the 100-1 thread.
Manfred Kaltz is correctly described as a right back and sweeper. However I think he also was one of the first wing backs. He definitely played like a right winger for Hamburg and Germany at his prime, excelling with his banana-shaped crosses. During the 1982 World Cup, Germany switched from the originally used 4-3-3 to a 3-5-2 (both with a sweeper): It changed from this: --Rummenigge--Hrubesch---Littbarski -----Magath-----Breitner-----Dremmler ---Briegel-------Kh.Förster------Kaltz ------------------Stielike ----------------Schumacher To this: ------------Fischer ----------------------Littbarski -------Magath -----------------Breitner------Kaltz ------Briegel ------------------------Dremmler --------B.Förster---------Kh.Förster ------------------Stielike ----------------Schumacher Briegel and Kaltz became two defacto wingbacks during this tournament, while Briegel was still given certain defensive marking duties, Kaltz was freed of that (as Dremmler was covering him on the right side) and thus had license to act as a mixture of a right-sided midfielder and right winger who occasionally joined central midfield as well. The Förster brothers were utilised as two man-marking stoppers, as most teams Germany faced did play with only two out-and-out forwards (Italy with Graziani/Rossi, France with Rocheteau/Six, Spain with Santillana/Quini, England with Mariner/Francis). Jonathan Wilson kinda missed that when he wrote his chapter on the development of the 3-5-2 in his book "Inverting the Pyramid", attributing it solely to Bilardo's Argentina. BTW Holland also experimented with a 3-5-2 in a 1978 friendly vs. Austria.
Good point actually, I'll amend his profile. I remember reading recently that Ron Greenwood (former England manager) had said after England's 0-0 draw with West Germany at the 1982 World Cup that one of the team's great achievements was in stopping Kaltz from making any crosses into the box. Glanville ridiculed this on the basis that England were basically worrying about a right-back, while Bearzot when asked had said that he wasn't bothered about Kaltz. I do think it shows the danger that Kaltz provided when going forward though.
Ron Greenwood was right though - Kaltz's crosses were one of the main offensive features of Hamburg and Germany in the late-70s/early-80s and always a worrying prospect for the opposing team. Btw, in that 1982 game Germany vs. England, Briegel and Karlheinz Förster were used as man-marking stoppers and Bernd Förster was shadowing Steve Coppell in midfield (a setup that was changed in the following games). I'm sure Bearzot must have been thinking about Kaltz before the game, that's what a good coach must do, check all possibilities of the opponent. But Kaltz faced I think Bergomi and Cabrini on his side of the pitch, probably Bearzot was confident they could keep Kaltz in check. But just saying that he "wasn't bothered" is cool talk after a game is finished.
Great work. There are a lot of players who could play at 2 or 3 positions in your list - do you want to pick them only once or is there a chance that you pick some of them in your next lists ? For example Thuram or Gentile - is there a chance that you also pick them in your 100 greatest CB list ?
No, they will only feature once. So in each case I have tried to pick their best position/position they would finish highest in. Thuram I really had difficulty with. I always associate him with right-back because that was where he first broke through at international, but in reality he played the majority of his career as a centre-back.
Additionaly and funnily enough he said during years that he disliked to play as a RB and that it was not his best position... actually after watching his WC06 performance as a CB (whereas he was past his prime) I'm not too far from thinking he said the truth. I could be wrong but I think he's one of the very few defenders in the history who can be picked among the top 10-20 greatest ever in two positions of the backline (RB and CB). There's also certainly Maldini (LB and CB). Who else ? Gentile ?