The 100 Greatest X of All Time Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    How do we know Julinho was better than a Rahn or Czibor? Who has said that?

    Julinho played against Mexico (which was a rout), Yugoslavia (a match that often gets assigned to Didi) and then lost with his team against Hungary. He scored a goal against Hungary, that is true, but it was also a game infamously ruined by muddy rain and violence. Hard for any player to really show your true worth.
     
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  2. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    It's interesting that he scored Charlton with 10 points and Cruyff with 8 being 1979 (with the career of the Dutchman fresh in the analysis).
     
  3. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member

    Jun 1, 2018
    It is not what I have seen, it wasn't the general consensus, for some Garrincha was preferred in the place of Julinho, although they considered that Julinho had more international trajectory than Garrincha.

    Also, the solution that could be used - according the CBD - in the case if Julinho had been released by the Italians, would put Garrincha on the left, a position he had already played before ... and that it would be beneficial for Brazil to have the both playing together:

    [​IMG]

    Of all forms, Julinho had problems with the Italian federation, but pointed out that Garrincha could replace him with no problem:

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Yeah, the three were in the conversation for best winger.

    Point is, Julinho has showed his class far beyond a regional view. Which was said about Erico, Moreno, etc.
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #2580 carlito86, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
    Is Julinhos solo run goal against Hungary in the 54 World Cup recorded anywhere?

    @PuckVanHeel Julinho was more of a creator than scorer unlike czibor(it would be like comparing Di Maria to arjen robben)
    Julinho was a true midfield winger(like Garrincha,lato,figo or recently Di Maria etc)
    Czibor played wide but was a wing forward and could play CF (like CR7 07/08 or arjen robben In Bayern)

    In any case czibor looks to of had the more successful career and was probably the joint 4th most important player in that legendary 1950s side after puskas,Hidegkuti,kocsis and then czibor/Bozsik tied
     
  6. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Elías Figueroa is a very interesting case for me. The more I see him more I think he was a higher level player than the average estimate and a lot of his career that I can't review visually it's usually documented as exceptional, especially in Uruguay.

    It's difficult to notice the low points in a retrospective review, but even his late career in Chile with a humble Palestino still seems incredible.

    As well as I consider Scirea or the other South American reference, Passarella, I'm at a point where I don't see how don't rate him over them and to debate about his position compared to Baresi.
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    ... :rolleyes:

    The only 1970s player with the same or more points is compatriot Mario Kempes, which has no value. Nor do his points fully match with the commentary he makes. Anyway, this are already three sentences too many.

    Three years later (1982) ADS his ideal XI had JC14 in but not Charlton (also no Erico):
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/th...of-all-time-1993.2086594/page-2#post-37094304
    (for democratic Don Balon, not dictatorship El Grafico - to say this harsh)

    One final thing:
    There was no discussion. There was only your listdump. Not to mention how you clearly ignore the various evidence and lists I've posted (example) while happily accepting and repping the things by others, if it is preaching to your choir (including your integral taking over of kicker terminology, very revealing). You clearly had no interest in my recent thread for instance, and when pressed upon you just ignore the observations raised. This are my final words on this. If you want to have the last word, go ahead.
     
  8. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Yes, that also makes it curious, that the comments of the interview don't exactly fit that list by points.

    Ok, I won't answer extensively this because I think you're too emotional now (and this is not the corresponding thread). I usually like very much your contributions when you're not and we can discuss only about football.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I don't really see what is the problem for Figueroa.

    You only have to look at his English and Spanish wikipedia to see plenty of 'mainstream' lists have honored him (not as high as the IFFHS vote, but okay).

    His limitation is simply that he was a (true) defender, and in almost all lists there is a limited amount of spots for defenders in a top 100. L'Equipe in 1999 for instance explicitly thought about this, and explicitly spelled out there is only place for ten defenders.

    This can be Figueroa, but his generation and overlapping generations already has a number of other (stylish) defenders with a big name. With his latin resonance it is not him who gets shafted most often by those so called 'better researched lists'...
     
  10. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think this might be the case. The cultured defenders have distinct advantages when it comes to all-time rankings, for obvious reasons.

    I've read many sources that Figueroa was a very cultured defender. Some called him the Beckenbauer of S. America (or Beckenbauer the Figueroa for Europe!). However, from the video footage that I've seen of him, his ball-playing abilities were really nothing special. I rarely see him dribble 20-30 yards or make those beautiful long passes that a Bonucci would. Compared to his contemporaries, I think both Beckenbauer and Krol showed much more accomplished ball-playing abilities. Admittedly, I've seen more footage of these two than I have of Figueroa, including a few full matches.

    Having said that, I am a recent convert of the church of Elias Figueroa. Of the 'true' defenders, as you put it, I've now come to believe he is the GOAT.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Can you explain that call with some tangibles?

    I do find Figueroa his ball skills a lot better as the one of Sammer for instance (and Cannavaro obviously). I watched past week the Portugal vs Germany match of 1996. Very interesting and intruiging view.

    I mean tangibles of this kind.

     
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  12. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Jun 11, 2012
    Without spamming the whole 100, I demoted Laudrup by discounting EC92.

    I would like to plug in Erico but I am lacking resources of any international exploits of his. In other words, I am trying to detach Arsenio from Sastre as to determine if Erico was a common 8 for effective skill or if he might actually be worthy of the scarse 9. It seems that without Sastre the outlying goals per season dropped.
    Ideas and other feedback is much appreciated!
     

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