Team of the Decade

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tom Stevens, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1905-1915

    Forward: Harry Hampton (Aston Villa, England)
    Forward: George Holley (Sunderland, England)
    Forward: Jimmy Quinn (Celtic, Scotland)

    Wing: Alex Bennett (Celtic, Scotland)
    Wing: Jock Rutherford (Newcastle, England)

    Halfback: Charles Thomson (Hearts, Sunderland, Scotland)
    Halfback: Billy Wedlock (Bristol City, England)
    Halfback: Charlie Roberts (Manchester United, Oldham, England)

    Fullback: Jesse Pennington (West Brom, England)
    Fullback: Bob Crompton (Blackburn, England)

    Goalkeeper: Sam Hardy (Liverpool. Aston Villa, England)

    Honorable Mention: Fleming, Wilson, Wall, Simpson, Hay, Williamson
     
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  2. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1900-1910

    Forward: Colin Veitch (Newcastle, England)
    Forward: Billy Walker (Hearts, Scotland)
    Forward: Vivian Woodward (Tottenham, Chelsea, England)

    Wing: Bobby Templeton (Aston Villa, Arsenal, Celtic, Kilmarnock, Scotland)
    Wing: Billy Meredith (Manchester City, Manchester United, Wales)

    Halfback: Andy Aitken (Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Scotland)
    Halfback: Alex Raisbeck (Liverpool, Scotland)
    Halfback: Peter McWilliam (Newcastle, Scotland)

    Fullback: Andy McCombie (Sunderland, Newcastle, England)
    Fullback: Herbert Burgess (Manchester City, Manchester United, England)

    Goalkeeper: Leigh Roose (Stoke, Everton, Sunderland, Wales)

    Honorable Mention: Harris, Howie, Bache, Kirwan, Leake, Warren, Sharp, Rennie
     
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  3. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1895-1905

    Forward: Gilbert Smith (Corinthians, Old Carthusians, England)
    Forward: Steve Bloomer (Derby County, England)
    Forward: Robert Hamilton (Rangers, Scotland)

    Wing: Alex Smith (Rangers, Scotland)
    Wing: John Campbell (Celtic, Aston Villa, Scotland)

    Halfback: Neilly Gibson (Rangers, Scotland)
    Halfback: Ernest Needham (Sheffield United, England)
    Halfback: John Robertson (Everton, Southampton, Rangers, Scotland)

    Fullback: Jimmy Crabtree (Aston Villa, England)
    Fullback: Jock Drummond (Rangers, Scotland)

    Goalkeeper: Jack Robinson (Derby County, Southampton, England)

    Honorable Mention: McColl, Forman, Crawshaw, Oakley, N Smith, Spencer
     
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  4. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #104 Tom Stevens, Nov 7, 2019 at 11:27 PM
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 11:45 PM
    1890-1900

    Forward: John Campbell (Sunderland)
    Forward: Jack Bell (Dumbarton, Everton, Celtic, Scotland)
    Forward: Edgar Chadwick (Everton, England)

    Wing: Charlie Athersmith (Aston Villa, England)
    Wing: Fed Spiksley (Sheffield Wednesday, England)

    Halfback: Hughie Wilson (Newmilns, Sunderland, Scotland)
    Halfback: Jimmy Cowan (Aston Villa, Scotland)
    Halfback: Jack Reynolds (West Brom, Aston Villa, Ireland, England)

    Fullback: Dan Doyle (Everton, Celtic, Scotland)
    Fullback: Robert Holmes (Preston, England)

    Goalkeeper: Ned Doig (Sunderland, Scotland)

    Honorable Mention: Devey, Millar, McMahon, Milward, Lambie, Hannh, Holt
     
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  5. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1885-1895

    Forward: Jack Southworth (Blackburn, Everton, England)
    Forward: John Goodall (Preston, Derby County, England)
    Forward: Jimmy Ross (Preston)

    Wing: Jack Gordon (Preston)
    Wing: Billy Bassett (West Brom, England)

    Halfback: Bob Kelso (Renton, Everton, Preston, Scotland)
    Halfback: James Kelly (Renton, Celtic, Scotland)
    Halfback: Harry Allen (Wolves, England)

    Fullback: Percy Walters (Corinthians, Old Carthusians, England)
    Fullback: Nick Ross (Preston, Everton)

    Goalkeeper: James Trainer (Preston, Wales)

    Honorable Mention: Lindley, Lofthouse, Hodgetts, Graham, Frobes, Howarth, A Walters, Moon
     
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  6. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1880-1890

    Forward: Archie Hunter (Aston Villa)
    Forward: Wiliam Cobbold (Corinthians, England)
    Forward: Fred Dewhurst (Preston, England)

    Wing: William Anderson (Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Wing: Charlie Bambridge (Swifts, England)

    Halfback: James Forrest (Blackburn, England)
    Halfback: David Russell (Preston, Nottingham Forest)
    Halfback: John McPherson (Vale of Leven, Scotland)

    Fullback: Walter Arnott (Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Fullback: Andrew Holm (Queen's Park, Scotland)

    Goalkeeper: James McAulay (Dumbarton, Scotland)

    Honorable Mention: Lindsay, Brown, Harrower, Suter, Gillespie
     
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  7. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1875-1885

    Forward: Billy Mosforth (Sheffield Wednesday, England)
    Forward: John Smith (Mauchline, Edinburgh, Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Forward: George Ker (Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Forward: Arthur Cursham (Notts County, England)
    Forward: John Kay (Third Lanark, Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Forward: John Baird (Vale of Leven, Scotland)

    Halfback: Norman Bailey (Clapham Rovers, Old Westminsters, England)
    Halfback: Charles Campbell (Queen's Park, Scotland)

    Fullback: Tom Vallance (Rangers, Scotland)
    Fullback: Andrew Watson (Queen's Park, Scotland)

    Goalkeeper: Alexander McGeoch (Dumbarton, Scotland)

    Honorable Mention: Parlane
     
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  8. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1870-1880

    Forward: Charlie Chenery (Crystal Palace, England)
    Forward: James Weir (Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Forward: Charles Alcock (Wanderers, England)
    Forward: Charles Clegg (Sheffield Wednesday, England)
    Forward: Henry McNeil (Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Forward: Billy Mackinnon (Queen's Park, Scotland)

    Halfback: Alex Kennedy (Third Lanark, Scotland)
    Halfback: Arthur Kinnaird (Wanderers, Old Etonians, Scotland)

    Fullback: Robert Neill (Queen's Park, Scotland)
    Fullback: Joseph Taylor (Queen's Park, Scotland)

    Goalkeeper: Robert Gardner (Queen's Park, Clydesdale, Scotland)

    Honorable Mention: Vidal, Renny-Tailyour, Ferguson, Highet, Jarrett, W Ker, Morten
     
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  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Bok de Korver, Just Gobel, Harry Denis, Jan de Natris, Van Heel.

    I don't claim they are certainties for an XI but some of them are as strong options as a De Vecchi.

    But it's clear which mythologies Tom Stevens follows, where his sympathies are (the robbery of Bern), which false narratives he follows, and to which camp he belongs.

    The cartel propaganda is strong. He doesn't answer my questions either on those hyperbolic claims he makes ("revolutionary").
     
  10. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Obituary by Brian Glanville.
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2004/jan/27/guardianobituaries.football
     
  11. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Jan Kosek from Slavia Praha, could be an HM
     
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  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I like De Korver among pre-war players
     
  13. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    @PuckVanHeel

    I do not always respond to you promptly because it is tiresome. If I make a thread like this I know you will find some part of it you think has anti Dutch/Belgium bias and snipe that one point.

    This was triggered by the fact that I did not include any Dutch players in the 1920-30 period, which I do not understand because you yourself said...

    So in all of the massive grey areas I am delving into and making judgement calls on one player over another with far less information than would be optimal, your whole rant about the cartel was triggered by one possible instance where I did not make a marginal call for a Dutch player over an Italian one? This is your evidence?

    And the funny part about De Vecchi is I agree with you and am glad you brought his name up, because he is one of the players I find myself putting in team by default and I am not sure why other than reputation, as Italian football is far behind the rest of the continent including the dutch in the first half of the 20s. The national team has horrible results and goals allowed when he plays for them.

    But lets look at your broader complaints about the cartel and how ridiculous they are, and that you only see them because that is the only you look for. Despite the fact that you have tons of football knowledge and 50% of your posts are great, the other 50% you are like Bada Bing with Messi. Every thread is an opportunity to complain about anti Dutch bias.

    So if you want to claim I am part of the cartel, be more specific. What cartel is this? In the past you claimed that I am some type of South American sympathizer. In this thread I have focused and two South American legends that I feel have a legacy that is larger than it should be based on the evidence I can see in Leonidas and Pedernera. I am questioning the legacies of two of the most romanticized names in South American football from its Golden Age.

    Another thing that you have insinuated is I am in some type of "big country" cartel that favors I am assuming English, German, Italian, and Spanish players. If this is the cartel I am in how do you explain my 1970-80 team that included five Dutch players and only two German players, despite the fact that Germany made three major tournament finals in this period and won two, while the Dutch made one final and won none?

    Or looking at the 1920-30 team that sparked your outrage, what type of cartel am I a part of based on that evidence? Some type of new Uruguay/Scotland/Danube cartel trying to repress the historical greatness of Dutch/Belgium players?

    There are to many cartels I am a part of I can't keep it all straight. Try to base your aggressive and off putting accusations off some real evidence you can point to, as oppose to wild baseless accusations.

    Then you will only be obsessive, confrontational, and annoying, not obsessive, confrontational, annoying, and a conspiracy theorist. If you did not have a lot of great knowledge about football I think many people would just stop interacting with you because you are so single minded and abrasive about anti dutch bias. Like I said I knew when I started this thread that there was no way I could get all the way through it without you at some point claiming I am ant Dutch, so I feel like there is almost no point in addressing it when it comes up.

    ...

    Fritz Walter

    There are some other quotes I can't find I read here alluding to the same thing. I remember reading a quote from one of his contemporaries on this forum that focused more on the ideas that he was tactically unique in the way he dropped deep and organized as a CF in 40-42, which I was somewhat skeptical of as Sindelar seemed to have already done these things. Maybe Walter was more of an organizer and Sindelar more of a dribbler soloist?

    Hence my statement he was seen at the time as new or different during his time in skill/tactics.
     
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  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Oleh blokhin doesn't deserve even a honourable mention for the forward position?


    He(blokhin)played in the relative obscurity so I guess this has an effect on his perception (but he has his goals against some strong NTs as West Germany and also against some big club opponents too in Europe)

    I couldn't tell you how strong the Soviet league was
    in full flight and before his injury blokhin was a sight to behold


    His goal record as a WF is comparable to anyone of George Best,arjen robben,zoltan czibor etc consistently hitting the 20+ goal per season mark

    I don't see how his peak is noticeably inferior to KHR(neither technically or in his ability to fulfil many positions in the forward line)

    Again alot rests on how much weight one attaches to the Soviet league but he has almost as many NT goals as KHR for starters(the german with a superior gpg but also better team mates)
     
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  15. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    he does, but maybe 70-80?
     
  16. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    There are also the following friendly international matches that are recognised by Uruguay but not by Argentina. The reason for the dispute in 1943 and 1944 was because the teams represented footballers' unions rather than the national associations.

    Uruguayan goalscorers shown. Argentine teams and scorers unknown but the details should be somewhere.

    6 January 1943: Argentina 1 Uruguay 0
    9 January 1943: Uruguay 6 Argentina 2. Atilio Garcia 2, Zapirain 2, O Varela, Porta
    5 January 1944: Uruguay 1 Argentina 3. Castro
    8 January 1944: Argentina 3 Uruguay 3. Vazquez 2, Medina
    29 January 1944: Uruguay 2 Argentina 1. Medina, Zapirain
    29 January 1944: Argentina 6 Uruguay 2. Chirmini, Porta
    29 December 1945: Uruguay 1 Argentina 1. Raul Schiaffino
    2 March 1947: Argentina 2 Uruguay 1. Jose Garcia
    9 March 1947: Uruguay 4 Argentina 4. Godart 2, Claveres, Castro
    18 May 1948: Uruguay 0 Argentina 1.
    25 May 1948: Argentina 0 Uruguay 2. Gambetta, Puente
     
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  17. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Martino was the goalscorer on 6 January 1943. The other four did not play. None of the five played on 9 January 1943.

    There were also some matches between Argentina and club sides:

    3 August 1940: Argentina 7 Santa Fe Combined 4. No details known.
    15 August 1940: Argentina 1 Rosario Combined 5. None of the five forwards played.
    30 December 1940: Argentina 1 Rosario Combined 3. None of the five appeared but Moreno and Sastre were in the team.
    5 January 1946: Argentina 5 Argentinos Juniors 2. Pontoni scored two and Labruna one. Pontoni and Martino were replaced at half-time by Pedernera and Labruna. Mendez did not play.
    9 January 1946: Argentina 4 Defensores de Belgrano 1. Scorers were Pontoni 2 and Labruna 2. Same substitutions as in the last match. Mendez played the whole game.
     
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  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I overlooked this question.

    In my perception VdS is equally possible for both periods. Whether he is in the overall XI don't know but he is not far behind the top spot for sure. I think this is splitting hairs.

    Seedorf should be 1995 to 2005 imho. He won three Champions Leagues here (three different teams and playing different roles), played and started four CL finals (more than any other player this period), three semi finals with the national team, and league titles in three different countries with teams that don't have a monopoly on their league. He almost won the league with Inter as well (brace vs Juventus) but missed the final game which his team lost. Furthermore, he played six main tournament matches in Real Madrid their 2000 CL win for which he didn't receive a medal (5W 1L vs 5W 3D 3L). He was later elected into the Real Madrid team of the century, helped by breaking the 32 years CL drought.

    For various reasons (role, touches, free kicks, verticality of his play) people noticed him more around 2007 and then to a lesser extent again around 2011 (among the three most productive players of his team when they won the title, behind the two attackers) but the bulk of his contribution is in the prior period. Compared to a Pirlo, Redondo, Gerrard or Scholes he is a criminally underrated footballer, both in achievements and the range of his attributes/qualities.
     
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  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #119 PuckVanHeel, Nov 11, 2019 at 3:25 AM
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019 at 3:30 AM
    My apologies I was a bit annoyed but I honestly don't see how a De Vecchi can be placed on a pedestal and put in a different category (let alone placed there with the British players).


    He and his team finished 8th, 5th and 6th in the Olympics (1912 - 1924), which was basically the world championships at the time. Professionalism entered Italian football in the late 1920s.

    It is rather different than finishing 3rd, 3rd, 3rd and 4th like 'Holland' did or that Belgium immediately won the gold medal (in 1920) when entering as the hosts. At a first glance this should be immediately visible. It is not a one-off result or a 'miracle' but a row of competitive finishes.


    Basically it is because De Vecchi is Italian and because there is an ingrained and inherent tendency to rate that higher. Modern media, fans, sponsors etc. heavily gravitate towards the big five leagues and big eight countries in their history writing, and the push to erase 'Holland' from the equation is there (e.g. 'Juego de Posicion' as a Spanish invention...).

    For some reason Nils Middelboe and other Danish players (twice 2nd place, once 10th) have registered much better, possibly helped by that 1908 was hosted in London rather than far away from home, and him playing for Chelsea. Another 2nd place was achieved in 1912 in Sweden.
     

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