Tactics

In my mind I see them overlapping each other and covering each other's positions when needed, so it's not really a point of who plays as lb and lm, they both take care of the whole left side of the field. That's of course in a best case scenario. They both are speedy players with the ability to go forward, and as leftmids both have a good defensive mind to track back and help the defense, moreso than most of our midfielders.

In the best case, this could be a dangerous team on the left attacking wise, and by helping each other out in the defensive end, could lessen the deficiencies both have as leftbacks.

Since this is the formations thread

.....................Ronaldo....................
Marcelo............Kaka.............Granero
................Diarra........Diarra 2...........
Drenthe......Albiol........Pepe......Arbeloa
.....................Casillas......................

Like I said, someone has to go to make this leftside reality. Added that I want Granero in the team to strenghten the midfield (and he gives the best corners of any of our players) which sometimes seems completely gone with it looking like we are playing with a group of forwards, and a group of defenders: One of the current forwards is omitted.

Diarra 2 instead of Xabi, because Xabi is in a slump.

 

This is looking at it from a best case scenario. In my mind I see them going crazy against the rightbacks of the opposing team, and by forming Drenthelo stopping any rightmid on the planet with their combined forces. In reality this might probably not be the case, and instead of 1, we would be seeing 2 players who are neither a great defender nor midfielder.

I wouldn't mind seeing this for a couple of games though to see how it pans out. If Pelegrini would stop seeing Marcelo as only a leftback.

 

The English/Italian teams haven't needed to 'park the bus' - they just drive on through with the top down.

and as long as our front line contains raul* and we rely on guti to create the plays that trend will continue.


*yes i know he is leading scorer but so what. he hasn't troubled anyone of note in CL or internationally for several years now...

 

The English/Italian teams haven't needed to 'park the bus' - they just drive on through with the top down.

and as long as our front line contains raul* and we rely on guti to create the plays that trend will continue. ronaldo or no ronaldo


*yes i know he is leading scorer but so what. he hasn't troubled anyone of note in CL or internationally for several years now...

 

There have been plenty of English and Italian "bus parkers" of late. Man U vs. Barcelona comes to mind with Ronaldo as a lone striker. Then on the Italian side, certainly Roma against us was a case of parking the bus successfully.

 

I think the question mark is over the front four personnel and formation.

For me it should be a default formation of

--------------Kaka--------------------
---Benzema------------CR----------
------------Higuain-------------------

Kaka is a natural trequartista, and best utilized behind the front line and just in front of the box. Benzema seems to love hanging out on the flanks and thus performs poorly as a lone striker. Benzema and CR9 can take up on opposite flanks with Higuain in the middle, and if either comes into the box Higuain can drift wide if needed. All four, and particularly the front three, will be able to interchange positions on the field.

Raul, RVN, Granero, Guti, should be used to accomodate injuries and suspensions, or to exploit specific weaknesses against certain teams.

Alonso should be the main playmaker and either of the Diarras can be chosen to pair with him.

A narrow 4-2-2-2 exposes the fullbacks to pressure. Thus, with the defensive quality of our fullbacks, MP needs to incorporate more attacking action down the flanks with the forwards, else we might see more of the Sevilla approach in the future.

 

I agree. Problem is Alonso is off form & so is Gago (injured even)

I believe Pelligrini uses the 4-2-2-2 to "protect" the flanks from 1 on ones as stated in the preseason (the one where he discusses wingers) interviews.

Problem against Seville is Marcelo did not get much help from the midfield. I don't care if your a central mid, if there are 3 midfielders (Diarra-Guti-Alonso) at least one should support the fullback who is getting raped by his man.

 

I dont think that he is off form (as we are yet to see him in form), but that he needs continuous outing in which he is the playmaker in a stable lineup, for him to develop the understanding and communication with his team mates. The constant rotation up front has not helped, nor has playing him together with guti.

The narrowness is not inherent in the formation per se, but is more reflective of the style of the personnel and the tactical approach to the game.

You can aim to play a flat 4-4-2 that utilizes wingers, but it will become a very narrow formation if, on the field, the player congregate in the center of the park.

Looking at the squad, CR is the closest we have to a winger (i.e. not necessarily a line hugger, but someone willing to play from the flanks to add some width). Hence we need to use either of Benzema or Granero to complement him on the other flank. Kaka should not be deployed on the flanks, as he is most effective thru the middle.

The problem against Sevilla could be traced to a few things
1. There was little to no threat down the flanks by our forwards and thus Navas and Perotti could afford to stay up and receive the ball in good positions

2. Same lack of threat from the flanks, afforded the sevilla full backs ample opportunity to join the attack and help their wingers in doubling up against our full backs, who has you noted, weren't getting help from the midfield.

3. The AMs (Kaka and Guti) were not putting pressure on Zokora, and thus he generally had the time to play good balls to the flanks. Essentially when we lost the ball, we were defending with 6 players against 8. When Sevilla had the ball, we ideally should have 8 or 9 people in our own half/behind the ball

In summary we failed to put in a team performance against sevilla, and it just showed that MP still has a lot of work to do.

 

I really think he was on form before he got injured.

I doubt we'll see any "line huggers" for as long as Manny is the coach. He doesn't like "extremos". But he will use players like CR9, Kaka, Granero, Benzema & Higuain on the flanks to add width here & there.

True. But as was with Milan he should be allowed a free role and attack where he is given space.

Agreed.

I think Pelligrini can create width even without pure wingers as his Villareal teams were very fluid & dynamic in attack. Barca plays without pure wingers but we know how they can stretch defenses by good possession & incisive passing. Something that we can't do yet.

 

I believe Pellegrini is good enough for Real, plus he plays attractive football & knows how to develop talent. I'd give him enough time to be honest. And stop over analyzing games to a point.

The Villareal he built is a joy to watch.
Look were they are now, essentially the same squad, but look what losing Pellegrini did to them.

 

Our problem, imo is we weren't retaining possession. Doesn't matter wingers, width, no width, whatever... in Pellegrini's system we need to actually retain possession for it to work.

In his system if we don't retain possession we'll just leave our backline (especially FB's) exposed all the time. The quick counters kill us even more because since we have no possession or shape it leaves us with situations like we saw against Sevilla, 5 or 6 on 3 or 4.

I think that's one thing Lass bests all our midfielders on. He can get the ball, retain possession, control the pace a little then make the pass. All our other midfielders are quick passing (like Pellegrini wants) but they seem to have a 50-50 chance of actually completing it. When we lose possession (even against he minnows this happened) it's like a free for all at the back.



For me, we need Xabi to step up and do "Lass", but better. Retain possession and control the pace of the game especially when we are getting overrun or losing momentum.

 

The thing is Pellegrini's system is to keep possession like barca. It's just not the same formation/style.

 

This is why I think we should give Manny time. It's almost impossible to build a solid possession based team with new staff & many players within a year.

 

There should be signs of change and I think that is the problem. After three months, we still are looking like we've passed the ball around for three weeks. For small portions of the game we click, but for the most part it's more miss then hit.

Hopefully with time things will change. Hopefully he also makes some personnel changes (I'll repeat), because the personnel he's playing in that formation is partly the reason things ain't coming together.

I agree though, it's not easy getting a team to defend and attack together. You can see because it's been Cristiano performances for the most part that have set us apart from competition.

 

Define that. As "good" as we have been it's been mostly from individual performance. We as a team still don't have an identity or style, so we haven't imposed ourselves outside of sheer player quality.

 

I agree Nate. And despite all the doom and gloom and whining, I thought it was one of the most exciting games I've seen (in any league) of the young season.