Super Conferences

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by fishon, May 23, 2010.

  1. New Engalnd Nellie

    Mar 6, 2008
    Wow - I never noticed that before. Tougher to work in the 12. Is Nebraska a for sure?
     
  2. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Are you kidding?

    Nothing is for sure in this money grab.
     
  3. New Engalnd Nellie

    Mar 6, 2008
    Missouri has dropped off the headlines as well. ESPN seems to think some announcement vis a vis Nebraska will come tomorrow.

    Colorado is officially out of the Big 12.
     
  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    OK,here's the first piece of news I trust.... I think.
     
  5. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

    Mar 15, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I figured it was a done deal with the grand poobahs at CU gave a press conference today at noon stating they had accepted the Pac 10's invitation.
     
  6. unkiemark

    unkiemark Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Boulder
    Re: Super Conferences/Colorado

    Yes, Colorado will be in the Pac X, officially beginning the fall of '12, but it could happen a year from now.

    Looking at this in terms of women's soccer, CU will bring a solid program to the Pac X, but the Buffs will really be challenged to be competitive with the top two or three teams.

    By the end of next week we should know if the Texas Big 12 schools are going to join the Pac X or not.
     
  7. cachundo

    cachundo Marketa Davidova. Unicorn. World Champion

    GO STANFORD!
    Feb 8, 2002
    Genesis 16:12...He shall be a wild ass among men
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I doubt that the RPI would improve with an expanded Pac16, PacWest, or whatever it will be called. The Southwest Division's strength of schedule will benefit from playing the Pacific Division, specifically because of UCLA & Stanford. I looked at the records for the past 2 years & the equivalency of records roughly are:

    TAMU [33 wins] & OkSt [33] ~ USC [28], but USC's RPI is far superior

    Colorado [23] & Texas [22] ~ Cal [21], but Cal's RPI is far superior

    Texas Tech [16] ~ ASU [17], & ASU narrowly missed the cut last season

    Oklahoma [10] ~ Arizona [13]

    Realistically, the top 2 refugees from the Big12 are at best a Top20 team, not sxactly off the charts.

    If the Pac expands to 16, as others have mentioned, the 2 Arizona schools will join the former Big12 schools & the old Pac8 schools will be reborn. The regular-season schedule will probably be a 7+4 format, where a team will play all 7 teams in its own division, & host 2 & visit 2 from the other division. This will ensure that each team will get to play each other at least every other year.

    I really don't like the rotating 4 format because one year you can be playing dogs. As an example, if Stanford really wanted to load their schedule with body-bag teams, why go to the likes of TTech & Oklahoma when the likes of SJSt., USF, & St. Mary's are less than an hour away? There's a reason why Stanford play these teams only once every five years, even with the close proximity.

    I would like to see the top travel partners play the other division's top travel partners every season, and a rotating set of other teams. This ensures that each team in the expanded PacWest will play each other at least every 3 years.

    Let's say UCLA & TAMU win their respective divisions every year for the next 4 years. Then they'll play each other the next season & rotate playing the other teams in the other division.

    In determining a conference champion for the expanded PacWest, the unbalanced schedule will probably see clamor for a conference championship. It would be intersting to see what happens. There's a reason why there is no conference championship in the Pac for sports other than men's & women's hoops. If the Pac can make money out of a tournament, they'll do it. When the Pac10 men's BB tournament was first put forward, schools such as UCLA, Arizona, & Stanford were opposed to it because they wanted to maintain the status quo, those three were winning the conference without the benefit of a tournament. The $$$ eventually won out for hoops, but it has not yet happened to a popular spectator sport like women's VB, because I see that the Pac has determined that unless a corporate sponsor shows up, it wouldn't be profitable. A soccer conference championship tournament - very unlikely.

    Much like in pointy-ball, I see the new expanded Pac petition the NCAA to allow the winners of the Pacific & the Southwest divisions as automatic qualifiers to the NCAA soccer tournament. I think the NCAA will be amenable to this change.
     
  8. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't want to include your entire quote, but your analysis is quite interesting.

    I'm a little doubtful about the Pac 16, if it comes to be, getting two automatic qualifiers. The Big East is in a similar position and has only one. It seems to me it's one of the prices of going to such a big conference, having more teams but proportionally less automatic qualifiers.
     
  9. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    Re - automatic qualifying. Although 8 is the magic number for an AQ, the NCAA won't give the 2nd one if the conf championship involves both sides of the conference in the post-season tournament. In other words, if you had completely separate North and South tournaments/champions, you could get the 2nd AQ. Because the pool of at-large bids is pretty big now (and getting bigger in DI if the Big 12 goes away), I don't see this as a factor for these "super conferences" that will get several teams in anyway. It will be interesting to see what the Big East/ACC does if the BCS football schools have to consolidate into the ACC. Would there be any schedule coordination in whatever becomes of the Big East/ACC in basketball or other olympic sports?? Just fun summer speculation at this point...
     
  10. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    [ point...[/quote]

    I agree that as practical matter it doesn't make a lot of difference...

    BUT- I think you might have to have the same format in all sports. That is, you would need to show a systemic separation between the two conference halves. I don't think cherry picking by sport ( especially non-revenue sport) is allowed.

    The question then becomes, how will they format Football? And why would the other BCS conferences agree to a fatter paycheck to the Pacxx to their own detriment?


    But the longer this goes on, it appears that SOMEBODIES ego (Texas?) is resistant to being just another cog in a super conference. I think if they can put a financial deal of their own together that comes close to what they could get in the Pac Xx they might stay in the BIG xx and keep the ok's and the rest with them.

    The issue may now be whether TAMU will stay.
     
  11. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    A late breaking ESPN report says Texas is pressuring the rest of the current Big12 with an unequal split of the tv money as incentive to stay. (20-25 million was mentioned)

    My guess is that TAMU will bolt unless they get the same.
     
  12. bmoline

    bmoline Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    Champaign
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The big difference is that the Big East does not have 16 teams in football...in fact nowhere close to that. This is a BCS issue, not an NCAA one. It's up to the BCS to decide if the new Pac 16 would get two automatic bids, and it's anybody's guess as to whether they would do that or not. I don't think there would be additional automatic bids for any NCAA end of season tournaments (i.e. every sport but football).
     
  13. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    It's over?

    This report:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/c...conference_with_decision_to_stay_in_leag.html
    says that Texas has "saved" the Big 12 by deciding to stay in.
    It will be really interesting to see what the terms are, if any of this is true.
     
  14. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I believe about half of any of this, but Boy! this is fun to follow.

    as to waiving the conference championship rules - no way.

    Thereare 330+ schools that couldn't give a hoot about granting special favors to 12 teams.

    It's delusional.
     
  15. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

    Mar 15, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Re: It's over?

    Do I sense a bit of sarcasm in your "saved" comment? The only thing that got saved was UT's bank account still being by far the largest in the conference.
    Not hard to see why NE/CO felt a bit unappreciated after the Big 8 pretty much saved what was left of the old SWAC after it imploded and took in the refuged TX schools.
    They can spin this all they want but IMO this will be just a temporary band-aid on this situation.
     
  16. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Re: It's over?


    Lets review....

    It's over, and it was just money. If anything, Texas is the winner because it's now clear who runs the show.

    The Big 102.0 is at 12 teams, so they redraw their logo (again) and can now try for 4 more teams so they can have a playoff and more cash. If they make it attractive enough, they raid the Big East or ACC.

    It didn't go exactly as planned for the Pacx. Their hopes for World Wide Hegemony are dashed, and they have this wart in the middle of the country to deal with. I'm convinced they took Colorado just for leverage on the others and now they are left holding the paper bag that the stuff fell out the bottom of.
    They will have to find another team to get to 12 and have something that makes sense. (I bet Boise State is licking its chops and thinking they moved to the Mountain West too early) my guess here is that Pac10 commissioner Larry Scott needs to get Utah or somebody or lose his job. They blew their only shot, because here isn't another viable big market conference in the West to raid.

    The Buffalo is standing all alone with its head on a swivel thinking "what happened?". They are now totally isolated politically and geographically. they can't compete in any sport with the PAC10, unless they play hockey or something...


    I'm not sure what Nebraska gets other than money. Thay will do OK in Football, but not in the other sports in the Big102.0, I think.They might also lose alumni support, as their whole identity is in BIG12 Football. (hey! they are still in the Big12 - just everyone else is different). It remains to be seen if it was worth it. It turns out, there was almost as much money in it if they stayed.

    The Longhorn conference is now a little smaller, but they no doubt won concessions from FOX and Texas has a firmer grip on the conference, and they got rid of Pesky Nebraska in Football.

    Missouri breathes a big sigh of relief and will now vote in lockstep with Texas in perpetuity. The fact that nobody wanted them means to me they have to think about making themselves more attractive. Maybe schedule schools besides McNeese State in Football.

    The other schools in the conference are chastened about the law of unintended consequences.

    TAMU Is the only one left to decide. My guess is they will stay, as their whole thing is to try and be Texas, and there is political pressure in Texas to keep the rivalry.

    This looks like a lot of egos overplayed their hands except Texas. What's that AD's name? I want him negotiating for me.....
    I can see him having a cigar and Brandy with his Chancellor and saying "that's how it's done".

    The image we always have of Texas folks is oil rich Yahoos, but I gotta say, this is right out of SUN TSU's Art of War


    "If you know both yourself and your enemy, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss."
     
  17. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

    Mar 15, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Good summary, but personally I don't think the B10 (11? 12?) is done. I think they will try to raid three Big East schools in the NY TV market which will start to unravel that conference hoping that ND will then be forced to join the Big 16(?) for scheduling of all their sports. :cool:
     
  18. bmoline

    bmoline Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    Champaign
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: It's over?

    I agree with most of your summary, CW, but not so much about NU. They were never really comfortable with the arrangement with the Big 12. They felt like Texas made all the rules, despite the fact that the Big 8 was the conference that took in the Texas schools when they had nowhere else to go. When you factor in the geography and a natural rivalry with Iowa, I think their alums will be fine with it. I know one alum here in Champaign, and he thinks it's great, both athletically and academically.

    As far as doing okay in the other sports, they'll fare just fine in volleyball, wrestling, women's basketball and baseball for sure. I know they're weak in men's basketball, but no more so than Penn State, for example.
     
  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Since this is a women's soccer forum, how will they do in the big 10?

    My guess is they will struggle a bit.

    An honest assessment from some Nebraska folks would be interesting.
     
  20. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Breaking news is that Utah will joint Colorado as their partner.

    This tidied things up a bit for the PACx , but the package as sold last week to the PAC10 Chancellors, in soccer terms, now looks to have been a bit "ambitious"

    In academic terms, I wonder how CAL and Stanford will welcome "Party U"?

    Anyway, it looks like the conference is now the "12PAC". ;)
     
  21. bmoline

    bmoline Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    Champaign
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting about Utah. I don't know much about Nebraska from a soccer standpoint. I'd welcome feedback from the (former) Big 12 types.
     
  22. bmoline

    bmoline Member

    Aug 24, 2008
    Champaign
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. uscue13

    uscue13 Member

    Nov 11, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nebraska has an amazing forward (can't remember her name). I think it was Morgan. If I'm not mistaken she was a sophomore and the type of player who can not only win games but help bring in more great recruits the next three or four years. Big Ten soccer is much harder than Big 12 soccer, but I think the future is bright for Nebraska. When they join (2011?) they should be a middle-tier Big Ten school, and the schedule strength should push them into the NCAA's
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I'm willing to sell my trademark rights to the 12Pac™ name, BTW. :D
     
  25. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

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