Suntimes article on Sapong and 2020 season

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Fanaddict, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    This is not a criticism of Sapong, but a criticism of the reporting and the perception.

    From the article:

    "Sapong, 30, did his part in his first Fire season. He scored 13 goals, grew popular with the fans, and was the team’s most consistent attacking player."

    How the hell do they figure that?

    Nikolic also scored 13 goals, including 12 in MLS, despite playing 550 fewer minutes (the equivalent of 6 full games) than Sapong.

    Sapong "grew popular with the fans."
    Despite Nikolic being MORE productive and consistent than the "team's most consistent attacking player" (.54 g/90 to Sapong's .46 g/90, each had 3 game winning goals), fans here on BigSoccer were demanding Nikolic's benching or trade.
     
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  2. goldclover

    goldclover Member

    Mar 25, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I was a fan of both to be honest.
     
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  3. I'm sure Sapong had more goals from open play.
    Me too.
     
  4. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    He was also given more time in open play.
     
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  5. Old Man!

    Old Man! BigSoccer Supporter

    RIP Chicago Fire
    Mar 11, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “I wasn’t there before (Sporting KC) rebranded; however I did get to feel that sense of pride that comes with a new look, a new understanding, a new philosophy.”

    Be Chicago. Be Football. Be Club. I don't know about the rest of you, but that fills me with pride! hahah no, actually not at all. It's laughably bad. Embarrassingly bad. I'm not dumping on Sapong, if my employer asked me to spout happy bullshit for a paycheck, I'd do the same thing. I'm just wondering if the players notice the near universal dissatisfaction with this rebranding? I don't recall there being much unhappiness with the Wizards rebrand, but every situation is unique. CJ, buddy...you might be the only one wearing those colors with pride next season.
     
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  6. TyrusRose

    TyrusRose Member

    chicago fire
    North Korea
    Jun 17, 2019
    Nikolic also has the benefit of 3 penalty goals. 2 assists for Sapong to Nikolic's 0. Sapong also played plenty on the wing. In his 11 games as center forward, he scored 7 times. Add in better hold up play. Sapong isn't the answer, but neither was Nikolic any longer.
     
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  7. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Sapong was also stuck out on the wing a decent number of times because Pauno.

    The reaction from old school Wizards fans was pretty negative if you go back and read old social media about it (I still think the name and badge is awful), but OnGoal was also pumping a shit ton of resources into what was a really moribund franchise that just finished playing in a minor league baseball stadium after being neglected by Clark Hunt so people were more forgiving despite the distaste for it.

    That first SKC season was a real slog for the team and there was a lot of skepticism to start out. Before playing the Fire for their first game at home in June they were only 4-8-6. I actually saw them at Midway earlier in the spring after they had a multiple hour Southwest Airlines layover from Boston (because MLS), and those dudes just looked worn out.
     
  8. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As soon as KC started winning I think the fans forgot about the old look and name. Wizards was a stupid name anyway. I just want the Fire to find a smart TD, a good coach and great players. I don't think Sapong can be the main scoring guy if we hope to win MLS cup eventually.
     
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  9. Old Man!

    Old Man! BigSoccer Supporter

    RIP Chicago Fire
    Mar 11, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is something the players really need to get fixed in the next CBA. That's anything but major league. Hell, if the players didn't fly commercial, Graham Parker would never has been insulted that Basti was mistaken for a firefighter! (instead of a little league coach for Chicago Football Club, we play soccer)

    Not to keep beating the dead horse named rebrand, but it also occurs to me that no other MLS team has altered an identify as dramatically (name, color, logo) or changed one with as much longevity as the Fire. SKC's wasn't as old and they kept the blue primary color more or less.
     
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  10. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #11 xtomx, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    Me, too.

    I wanted them to play up top, together. I think they both would have benefited from that.

    Plus, we could have had Katai, McCarty, Gaitan and Frankowski playing in midfield together.

    Paunovic's idiotic line ups probably cost us a dozen points at least last season.

    Whether it was playing Sapong out of position, hurting him and keeping an AM off the field, or benching Nikolic, or taking Nikolic out at the 60 minute park, or refusing to allow Bastian to play in midfield, Paunovic screwed this team.
     
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  11. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #12 xtomx, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    Goals are f*cking goals.
    Penalties are goals. Period.

    There is no "benefit from" about it.

    Man, I hate that bullcrap about penalties.

    No shit, Sapong was played on the wing and should not have.

    None of you have had said a single thing to change my statement.
     
  12. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    People like to mix subjective Opinions with objective facts. Its annoying.
     
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  13. juicecrewallstar

    Chicago Fire
    United States
    Mar 1, 2019
    of course there's a benefit from getting to take PKs

    in Niko's two this season, Sapong earned one and Katai earned the other

    I'll grant that being good enough at PKs to be the taker is a skill, but of course it's going to inflate your stats vis a vis a guy who doesn't take them
     
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  14. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I do it, as well.
    Of course, I can be annoying.;)
     
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  15. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    All goals count the same. It inflates nothing.
     
  16. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    don't you know that PKs are gimmes, and there's absolutely no value in having a player who's good at them? Ask any Fire fan who flew out to Carson, CA in 2003.
     
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  17. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Mods, can you ban this one line permanently?
     
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  18. Pennsylvania Dave

    Jul 31, 2012
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    In my opinion a striker should ALWAYS take the Penalty Kicks. Why? Confidence. It's a psychological feedback loop. If a Striker is not scoring goals he starts to get rattled and overthinks and tries harder yet somehow fails because he is pressing and unsuccessful. If a striker is scoring goals he's relaxed, playing with flow and natural effortless inexertion and goals start coming in bunches. Even if the hard work and sacrifice of others draws the penalty I think it's in the best interest to keep that Striker scoring so he stays relaxed. It ultimately helps the team more to give those Peno chances to a guy like Nikolic.
     
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  19. GAAK!!!
     
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  20. TyrusRose

    TyrusRose Member

    chicago fire
    North Korea
    Jun 17, 2019
    It's a shot that has an average conversion rate of 75%. Let's please not act like it's some difficult shot converted 20% of the time. It is not as if he is the guy drawing those penalties either. Is Nikolic a good penalty kick taker? Yes, in fact he is one of the best in MLS at them. Does it help pad stats? Yes it does.
     
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  21. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Penalties do not "pad' stats. They ARE stats.

    All goals count the same.

    This crap argument has been around for decades.
    It was crap then; it is crap now.
     
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  22. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    False equivalence. Penalty kicks have a 75% conversion rate BECAUSE players that are good at them are the players that take them. Penalty kicks do NOT have a 75% conversion rate for any player that takes them.
     
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  23. skinut

    skinut Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2000
    Prospect Hgts IL (or often elsewhere on earth)
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm one of 'em who was at the game. It still hurts. Who knew Razov was sick?
     
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  24. TyrusRose

    TyrusRose Member

    chicago fire
    North Korea
    Jun 17, 2019
    I bet if we only look at conversion rates for penalty shootouts, the averages look very identical. Probably close to 70%, unless someone can find a definitive stat on that.
     

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