Rumor: Sunderland interested in John Bornstein

ebbro · Nov 11, 2009

Grumpy in LA said: ↑

To be fair, the players or teams that Tribal Football mentions often do turn out to exist.
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Wouldn't be a good rumor if they were just making up team and player names.

wooglin12 · Nov 11, 2009

Mr. Warmth said: ↑

How about this leaflet, "Famous Jewish Sports Legends?"
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Only if you want some light reading.

tubby_butter · Nov 11, 2009

jcsd said: ↑

I have to say this rumour sounds incredibly unlikely as Bornstein was noticed by a lot of people at the Confed Cup, but for all the wrong reasons.

Myself I wonder if he'd be able to hack it in the Championship, let alone the Premiership. You have to know the rudiments of how to clear a football if you've got any chance of playing as a defender those leagues.

Okay so the Confed Cup can be chalked off as a bad showing for Bornstein, but still there's very little to suggest he could make it in the Premier League.
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Yeah I think the Confed Cup, if nothing else, showed us who was comfortable competing at this level and who was not. I think we all know which category Borney falls in. Good player. Great to have a talented young Americans in MLS. Not Premiership quality.

alocksley · Nov 11, 2009

wooglin12 said: ↑

Only if you want some light reading.
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Mark Spitz
Pete Sampras
Sandy Koufax
Hank Greenberg
Steve Yeager
Kevin Youkilis
Lyle Alzado
Sid Luckman
Larry Brown
Dolph Schayes
Red Holzman
Mathieu Schneider
Bobby Nystrom

and many more...

Easy Morning Rebel · Nov 11, 2009

alocksley said: ↑

Mark Spitz
Pete Sampras
Sandy Koufax
Hank Greenberg
Steve Yeager
Kevin Youkilis
Lyle Alzado
Sid Luckman
Larry Brown
Dolph Schayes
Red Holzman
Mathieu Schneider
Bobby Nystrom

and many more...
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I could go for Dennis Leary's Mel Gibson rant right about now.

kokoplus10 · Nov 11, 2009

striker said: ↑

OT. Why does Preki want to leave Chivas USA? Does anyone know?
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Bob Bradley is going to be fired and he's taking his place.

On a more serious note, looking at the overall body of work I think Johnny Born has slowly improved as a LB. He still has momentary lapses in games, but is fairly consistant and can have a few outstanding performances from time to time.

For me, it's consistancy that plagues him, and that's to be expected if you develop in the MLS. A move abroad would help him in this regard.

As for people in this thread who are bemoaning his Confederations Cup performance let me just say that a lot of left backs in many quality leagues could be made to look stupid by Italy, Brazil, or Spain. Especially when their team is INVITING pressure from those opponents.

Prime Time · Nov 11, 2009

kokoplus10 said: ↑

Bob Bradley is going to be fired and he's taking his place.

On a more serious note, looking at the overall body of work I think Johnny Born has slowly improved as a LB. He still has momentary lapses in games, but is fairly consistant and can have a few outstanding performances from time to time.

For me, it's consistancy that plagues him, and that's to be expected if you develop in the MLS. A move abroad would help him in this regard.

As for people in this thread who are bemoaning his Confederations Cup performance let me just say that a lot of left backs in many quality leagues could be made to look stupid by Italy, Brazil, or Spain. Especially when their team is INVITING pressure from those opponents.
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He started at LB only against Italy, Brazil and Egypt. I thought he was fairly decent vs. Italy, but against Brazil he was pretty awful, as were most of the guys out there.

Craig P · Nov 11, 2009

alocksley said: ↑

Mark Spitz
Pete Sampras
Sandy Koufax
Hank Greenberg
Steve Yeager
Kevin Youkilis
Lyle Alzado
Sid Luckman
Larry Brown
Dolph Schayes
Red Holzman
Mathieu Schneider
Bobby Nystrom

and many more...
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Whoosh!

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0080339/quotes

It's between 1/3 and 1/2 of the way down the page.

kokoplus10 · Nov 11, 2009

Prime Time said: ↑

He started at LB only against Italy, Brazil and Egypt. I thought he was fairly decent vs. Italy, but against Brazil he was pretty awful, as were most of the guys out there.
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Right, I'm aware. I was just pointing out that the stretch of games would be brutal on ANY player.

If he looked out of place against Italy or against Brazil (down 10 men for long stretches no less), simply put there are a LOT of LB's worldwide that would turn in that same performance.

jcsd · Nov 11, 2009

kokoplus10 said: ↑

Right, I'm aware. I was just pointing out that the stretch of games would be brutal on ANY player.

If he looked out of place against Italy or against Brazil (down 10 men for long stretches no less), simply put there are a LOT of LB's worldwide that would turn in that same performance.
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No, why he did so badly was that he couldn't do the basics right.

Maybe he was intimidated playing better oppostion than he's used too, but he made himself look bad, no-one else.

kokoplus10 · Nov 11, 2009

jcsd said: ↑

No, why he did so badly was that he couldn't do the basics right.

Maybe he was intimidated playing better oppostion than he's used too, but he made himself look bad, no-one else.
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So it didn't matter that we were playing Brazil and Italy. At all. Any other left back would have been better.

Thanks for setting me straight.

irish56 · Nov 11, 2009

I'm not sold on Bornstein either, but you have to take the bad performances with the good. Since we are talking Sunderland, I have watched K. Jones play about ten times with T&T and never been the slightest bit impressed by him. About every other time I check the box score of Sunderland matches he seems to score.

OWN(yewu)ED · Nov 11, 2009

irish56 said: ↑

I'm not sold on Bornstein either, but you have to take the bad performances with the good. Since we are talking Sunderland, I have watched K. Jones play about ten times with T&T and never been the slightest bit impressed by him. About every other time I check the box score of Sunderland matches he seems to score.
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K Jones and Zlatan are the biggest Dr Jeckyl-Mr Hydes for club and country ive ever seen. They look so good for club but for country they seem very lackluster.

Scotty · Nov 11, 2009

alocksley said: ↑

Mark Spitz
Pete Sampras
Sandy Koufax
Hank Greenberg
Steve Yeager
Kevin Youkilis
Lyle Alzado
Sid Luckman
Larry Brown
Dolph Schayes
Red Holzman
Mathieu Schneider
Bobby Nystrom

and many more...
Click to expand...

I could have sworn he was Greek Orthodox.

Godalfree · Nov 11, 2009

Scotty said: ↑

I could have sworn he was Greek Orthodox.
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Wiki says: "Pete Sampras was born in Washington, D.C., and is the third child of Sammy and Georgia Sampras. His mother immigrated from Sparta, Greece, while his father was born in the United States to a Greek immigrant father and a Jewish mother.[5][6] Greek culture played a big role in his upbringing.[6][7] Pete attended regular services of the Greek Orthodox Church on Sundays.[8] "

jcsd · Nov 11, 2009

kokoplus10 said: ↑

So it didn't matter that we were playing Brazil and Italy. At all. Any other left back would have been better.

Thanks for setting me straight.
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Hold on I did not say that, but a very poor performance is a very poor performance ,no matter who it is against. He wasn't exactly great against Egypt either.... And besides which since he'slooked exposed defensively by far less oppostion than he played agianst in the Confed Cup

Okay you casn mitigate it by saying he's an inexperinced player and might've been intimidated by playing in the Confed Cup and he didn't have the opportunity to show his attacking play which is his strength. But still taking all that in to consideration it was an extremely poor performance in the Confed Cup.

arsenalfc08 · Nov 11, 2009

Re: Sunderland interested in John Bojjjrnstein

Forget Sunderland. He would fit right in at Wycombe, there defense sucks. Bornstein may even be too good for them

Clint Eastwood · Nov 11, 2009

kokoplus10 said: ↑

So it didn't matter that we were playing Brazil and Italy. At all. Any other left back would have been better.

Thanks for setting me straight.
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Yeah I don't get what people are thinking here. The fact the he did poorly against Brazil or Italy, doesn't mean he couldn't do a great job for a club in Holland, Turkey, etc. Prem is arguably a step too far, but it's tribal football. Ives and others have stated that he's making a move abroad this off-season...........so we'll see where he goes.

MHaifa1913 · Nov 11, 2009

wooglin12 said: ↑

Only if you want some light reading.
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Karlen Abramov
Luis Abramovich
Shimon Abuhatzira
Moshe Agami
Nat Agar
Jeff Agoos
Shay Aharon
Yohai Aharoni
Yari Allnutt
Hennadiy Altman
Kyle Altman
Aharon Amar
Danny Amos
Yigal Antebi
Dudu Aouate
Dori Arad
Gary Assous
Jonathan Assous
Lior Asulin
Eliran Atar
Mor Avi Hanan
Yuval Avidor
Eitan Azaria
Nati Azaria
Yaniv Azran
Arthur Baar
Barak Badash
Barak Bakhar
Ilan Bakhar
Kobi Baladev
Marco Balbul
Assi Baldout
Oded Baloush
Tal Banin
Matan Barashi
Aviram Baruchyan
Evyatar Bruchyan
David Bedok
Jerry Beit haLevi
Eyal Ben Ami
Eden Ben Basat
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Tal Ben Haim
Asaf Ben-Muha
Yaniv Ben-Nissan
Asael Ben Shabat
Ran Ben Shimon
Amit Ben Shushan
Ehud Ben Tuvim
Tomer Ben Yosef
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Michel Bensoussan
Eyal Berkovic
Nir Berkovic
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Shai Biruk
Ori Biton
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Gil Blumstein
Harald Bohr
Louis Bookman
George Borba
Jonathan Bornstein
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József Braun
Adam Braz
Sam Brill
Sándor Bródy (footballer)
Yaron Brown
Alon Brumer
Gadi Brumer
Omer Buchsenbaum
Maor Buzaglo
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Jordan Cila
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Avi Cohen
Eli Cohen (football manager)
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Zion Cohen
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Gyula Feldmann
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Kevin Friedland
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Ronny Gafney
Raul Geller
Aharon Gershgoren
Rami Gershon
Shimon Gershon
Harry Gilberg
Arik Gilrovich
Abba Gindin
Ludwik Gintel
Bonni Ginzburg
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Vicky Peretz
Omer Peretz (Maccabi Netanya)
Naor Peser
David Pizanti
Sjaak Polak
Egon Pollak
Haim Pontramoli
Roni Porokara
David Primo
Lior Rafaelov
Avi Ran
Matt Reiswerg
David Revivo
Haim Revivo
Yonatan Revivo
Dmitri Reznyuk
Avi Reikan
Seth Roland
Andy Rosenband
Abe Rosenthal
Ronny Rosenthal
Shmuel Rosenthal
Boris Rotenberg
Jaime José Rotman
Karol Rotner
Sebastián Rozental
Idan Rubin
Klemi Saban
Nathan Sacks
Ben Sahar
Ohad Saidof
Elnatan Salami
Ferenc Sas
Amos Sassi
Patricio Sayegh
Alfréd Schaffer
Emmanuel Scheffer
Idan Schefler
Samuel Scheimann
Amir Schelach
Otto Schlefenberg
Rony Schneider
Yisha'ayahu Schwager
Ernő Schwarz
Isaac Scliar
Gusztáv Sebes
Béla Sebestyén
Leon Sharf
Itay Shechter
Yossi Shekel
Shlomo Shirazi
Gal Shish
Dani Shmulevich-Rom
Idan Shriki
Idan Shum
Itzhak Shum
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Haim Silvas
Nir Sivilia
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Roby Young
Eran Zahavi
Michael Zandberg
Samuel Zauber
Oren Zeitouni
Preston Zimmerman
Eli Zizov

Those are just footballers with Wikipedia entries. Don't forget that many German, Austrian, Hungarian, Romanian national team players were Jewish before the rise of Nazism.

mike4066 · Nov 11, 2009

Would folks be upset if he went to Hapoel Tel Aviv or Maccabi Haifa as a starting LB? I know the level of play is probably the same or lesser than MLS but he would get some European experience.

bungadiri · Nov 11, 2009

mike4066 said: ↑

Would folks be upset if he went to Hapoel Tel Aviv or Maccabi Haifa as a starting LB? I know the level of play is probably the same or lesser than MLS but he would get some European experience.
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There was a fair amount of speculation about moves like this last yea (w/reference to Bornstein and Feilhaber both) and nobody seemed too upset about it.

YankBastard · Nov 12, 2009

mike4066 said: ↑

Would folks be upset if he went to Hapoel Tel Aviv or Maccabi Haifa as a starting LB? I know the level of play is probably the same or lesser than MLS but he would get some European experience.
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I know I wouldn't mind at all. Level of play there is better than MLS when it comes to the top clubs.

soccermusician · Nov 12, 2009

I hope he can be a starter at some other league and not get embarrassed in the EPL his first game and ride the bench for the remaining of the season, holland could be a good fit...

Scotty · Nov 12, 2009

kokoplus10 said: ↑

For me, it's consistancy that plagues him, and that's to be expected if you develop in the MLS. A move abroad would help him in this regard.
Click to expand...

I think that a lot of Bornstein's problems in the past could be put down to the fact that he was getting played in midfield half the time for Chivas, and so he wasn't quite comfortable at left back when playing for the USA.

Now that he's playing exclusively at left back for Chivas (at least he was last time I checked) he's starting to turn in more consistent performances at the international level. Yes, he often looked shaky at the Confederations Cup, but you have to consider the quality of the competition.

That being said, I still don't think the time is right for Bornstein to move abroad. Although he has some great tools for the role (speed and good technique), his positioning and decision making skills still need improvement. That's why I think that another full season in MLS would do him well -- and it's crucial the he continue to be played consistently as a defender. He still has a higher ceiling and if he continues to progress the way he has then he could soon turn out to be a very solid left back.

Then a move to Europe could be in order...

alocksley · Nov 12, 2009

Godalfree said: ↑

Wiki says: "Pete Sampras was born in Washington, D.C., and is the third child of Sammy and Georgia Sampras. His mother immigrated from Sparta, Greece, while his father was born in the United States to a Greek immigrant father and a Jewish mother.[5][6] Greek culture played a big role in his upbringing.[6][7] Pete attended regular services of the Greek Orthodox Church on Sundays.[8] "
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Hey, I'll take half a Pete Sampras over a whole Andy Roddick any day...