I'm specifically referring to coaching dirty play. There's a big difference between coaching to play dirty and coaching to be competitive, aggressive, and mentally tough. Look at what the OP threw out as examples... If you don't want the ref to see it done, I don't feel the coach should be coaching it. That doesn't mean I want the kids to be wrapped in bubble wrap.
The goalpost keep changing…is it specially taught to play cheap/play dirty?…or allowed leeway in practice to play aggressively, even up the point, where crossing the line is possible (obviously within limits)? If it’s the latter, I don’t necessary have an issue… My son’s pickup games are never soft, but nobody’s playing dirty either…
I used the term Street wise in my original post, I never used the terms playing dirty or cheating. I think there is a difference. For example, centre half’s can give strikers a real rough time. They’re usually bigger and like to use body weight to their advantage. As a striker, playing with your back to goal comes with a lot of tough tackles from behind and pushes into the back to put you off the flight of the ball. After you’ve stood on a centre half’s toes a few times during a game, he’s far less inclined to push into the back of you. The ref won’t see the majority of the centre half’s pushes and nudges, nor will he see you treading on his toes with your studs. For me it’s not cheating, but part and parcel of the game. If you see stuff like that as dirty, cheap, or cheating then that’s fine. No one’s forcing you or your kids to play like that. It was only a question to promote discussion.
Yeah, at the pro level there is never any pushing and nudging from behind because everyone stepping on everyone’s toes…sarcasm… A little toe stomping ain’t going to stop “quality” certerbacks from pushing, nudging and generally putting a body on someone, no matter how many times you step on his toes; you may worse off for even trying it…this cheap tactic might work with less quality CBs, but good luck finding one of those once you get pass a certain level, like rec ball…
Now you’re starting to embarrass yourself and, I’d bet, never played a game of football in your life.
You have made the claim such tactics are prevalent and effective (and necessary), especially at a high level… As such, I would expect putting a body on someone to be a non-factor at such high levels, which I think we all know isn’t the case…so… Either, such tactics aren’t as prevalent as you claim…or as effective….or both…
Do you want the players to do these "street wise" moves in full view of the ref? If not, it's because you know it will be a foul. Against the rules = "cheating". OK, put yourself in the position of CB. You push/nudge the forward to get him off his line. He steps on your toes. Does that actually stop you from pushing and nudging? I'm guessing not. Therefore, what are you teaching it for? Again, my point is the kids will pick these "street wise" moves up on their own. They shouldn't be taught, and shouldn't NEED to be taught by the coach.
So, I take it neither of you two saints would condone.... 1. Going over in the penalty box at the slightest contact 2. Taking a throw in when you know it came off your team last 3. Feigning injury and staying on the ground to run the clock down 4. A professional foul to stop a threatening break away I suspect, as I said before, neither of you have ever played 90 minutes of football in your life.
So you ask us questions, but you refuse to answer ours. Why is that? Because you know your answers weaken your position? Do these things happen? Of course. Neither one of us has denied it. I'm not speaking for mwulf, but for myself, I don't feel the coach should be teaching those things. The kids will pick it up on their own. I've said that multiple times. I don't know how much simpler I can make it. FWIW, of your examples, #1 & #3 is why soccer is so looked down upon in the US. If the goal is to elevate soccer, why endorse something that gives a negative image? And for #4, that's a "tactical" foul. It's no different than fouling in basketball to stop the clock. As far as #2, I would give credit to ANY player who admitted the ball went off them. Doesn't matter if it's soccer, basketball, football, or water polo. That's called "having integrity". In fact, IIRC, there was even a commercial made about it... https://www.passiton.com/inspirational-stories-tv-spots/106-basketball THAT'S the kind of child I'd like to raise. And don't give me "well, they can have integrity off the pitch". And I'll readily admit, I never played 90 minutes of any sport (ok, golf took me longer than the average round). But my goal isn't to get my kid to the MLS, EPL, or NT. My goal is raise kids who become adults that have integrity. I would hope whatever coach I entrust my kids to have the same end goal. Now, if you want to come back and say "what about x, y, and z", I'll know you're not interested in a discussion. If come back and say "teaching x, y, and z benefits the players because... ", maybe I'll listen to you.
I agree with the point that kids will pick “stuff” up as they play and it shouldn’t be taught. Spend the time teaching them skills, agility and teamwork. They will respect that more in the long run.
Condone is an interesting word, it denotes that something is wrong (morally, ethically, etc.), but you accept/allow it to continue...with that said... I don't have too much issue with either of these, except for #3, which I personaly consider bush league...and ethical wrong in terms of sportsmanship... Going over in the penalty box at the slightest contact, as long as there is actual contact, is fine...however, coaching kids always go down at any contact is probably doing them a disservice...not every contact, even in the box, is foul... Taking a throw in when you know it came off your team last...you don't take a throw, you are given the throw by the ref...being 100% sure and the ref getting this routine call wrong has to be pretty rare, so rare I consider it a non-issue... A professional foul to stop a threatening break away...no problem, part of the game...this is done in full view of the ref with the understanding that you will be carded for it... Did I pass?
Eyebrows, we've answered your questions, how about answering some of ours... Do you believe in something called sportsmanship and fair play, or is it just something losers wear as a consolation prize? Is there any tactic or behavior you consider off limits? Let's consede, we all agree intentionally trying injury someone is a bridge too far...
This is exactly how I feel. I don't want my kids surprised by some of the shithousing that can happen. If they expect it, and can dish it out on occasion, then it's less of a distraction in crunch time situations.
I'm all for teaching mental toughness. But that's not what this is about. PS I tend to defend a bit of gamesmanship and chippy play in the sport. Not sure teaching it at the youth level is the way to go.