Street Wise

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Cantona's Eyebrow, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    And in the US, if you play soccer, you have very little chance of going pro…

    Although, in all fairness, the same thing can be said for all sports…

    Maybe your talk of going pro and your highest level spiel impress parents of 9 years who don’t know any better, but for parents who have been around a bit, probably not quite as impressed…although I am sure you have a great accent that sounds very authoritative…
     
  2. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    Incorrect.

    Incorrect.

    Correct. Thanks for playing :ROFLMAO:

    Don't let me stop you if you enjoy life at the bottom level of football, cheering on your little team of good Samaritans with the rest of the "seasoned soccer parents" :ROFLMAO:. Enjoy taking the moral high ground against more street wise squads of players as they gub you on their way to success. :laugh:
     
  3. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The odds of going pro in NBA, 0.03%
    The NFL, 0.09%...
    MLB, 0.5%....
    NHL, 0.4%...
    MLS, 0.08%...

    But by all means, don’t let the facts get the way of your delusions of grandeur that you are coaching a bunch of future pros…
     
  4. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    I'm fully aware of the stats. However, if a child works hard enough, is dedicated to improving their game, and get's a bit of luck they have as much chance as any one else.

    You must be a real joy to be around when spouting off those stats on the sideline.

    And yes, some of the kids I've worked with will go on to be pro at various levels.
     
  5. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    It’s not about being a killjoy; it’s about having realistic expectations…

    I am all for hard work; kids should work hard for the sake of working hard doing something they love/enjoy…improving themselves to the best of their ability…

    But to dangle “going pro” over a bunch of 10 year olds and their parents, just to sell or justify your coaching style, which apparently including teaching kids to cheat, is crap…and here I thought dangling “college scholarship” was bad….

    Whatever you say, Coach Kreskin…
     
  6. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    And that's the same in EVERY sport. The ODDS of any given youth playing making it to the professional league are extremely small. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it is very rare.
     
    Cantona's Eyebrow repped this.
  7. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    Who said anything about dangling anything? Sorry to burst your bubble, but nothing is sold to parents or children where I coach, as players are brought into the pathway on ability and potential. There is no monetary fee involved for the parents. I'm fully aware that only 0.5% will go on to play at a professional level, but I'll do my best to provide them with every chance of reaching their potential within the game. If that means pro, semi-pro, amateur or junior then great.

    As a seasoned soccer parent, I'm sure your getting your money's worth from whatever program is teaching your children to be good little sports boys and girls. And remember if they come up against some big, bad teams who like to bend the rules.... there's always badminton :ROFLMAO:
     
  8. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    Jealousy is a horrible trait in anyone.
     
  9. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    As I said, that’s already happens…jersey pulling, elbow throwing little bastards…and as I’ve also said, it’s not nearly as effective, impactful, or devastating as you make it out to be…it’s amazing how instinctively most kids learn how to deal with that crap and/or give it right back, all without being formally coached to do so…
     
    sam_gordon repped this.
  10. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I have lots of horrible traits, jealousy of some stranger on the internet, ain't one of them...
     
  11. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    ??? So teaching a player dirty tricks teaches them how to defend against them? Strange argument.

    There are players and teams who "play dirty" starting at a young age. I don't think anyone is saying there isn't.
     
  12. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    What you on about?
     
  13. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    You made it seem like teaching kids to play dirty will help them when they face teams that play dirty. That doesn't make logical sense.

    And this "bend the rules BS"... unless you are willing to have your kids do this in full view of the refs, it's illegal. Do you want your teachers showing kids how to cheat on a test?
     
  14. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    If kids can't learn to get more street wise on the pitch they'll struggle to reach their full potential. That's a fact.

    Why would a player do these things in full view of the ref? Plenty goes on behind the refs back in every single game played. The rules are bent at all levels of football from grassroots to pro. Those pro's that you wet your knickers watching on television each week, I hate to break it to you, they're breaking the rules. Those stars from the MLS, breaking the rules. The American woman's team, breaking the rules. I I'd bet my left nut that if Jesus kicked a mitre mouldmaster around with the disciples he'd have been a cheating, diving, fouling so and so too. Your naivety is astonishing, Mother Teressa.

    ILLEGAL? This is football we're talking about here, not organised crime. What a drama queen :laugh:

    Trying to converse with some of the donuts on this board reminds me of something Ol' Big Head once said, "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".
     
  15. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    Illegal = "against the rules". I'm sorry your brain thought I meant a crime scene.

    Again, not one person has said kids won't learn "dirty tricks". The point is whether a coach should be the one actively teaching them. IMO, that answer is "no". Just like I don't want a teacher showing kids how to cheat (but knowing kids will figure it out on their own), I don't want a coach teaching dirty tricks.

    And you need to make up your mind, are you bending or breaking the rules? Those have two different meanings.

    And if you don't like being questioned about your opinions and "facts" on this board, you are more than welcome to go somewhere else. I don't believe any one is saying you have to stick around.
     
  16. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nobody is denying these things happen on the pitch…among others (like whether it should be coached or not), I think we disagree on the degree and extent to which they happen and the degree and extent which they are necessary to be “successful” (aka reach one’s full potential)…

    You present it as fact that no kid can find success without cheating and playing dirty…

    You also present it as fact that every “successful” player cheats and plays dirty to the fullest extent possible…

    I think your “facts” are a load of crap…I think you are taking ridiculously extreme positions because you’re getting your ass handled to you by a couple of know-nothing parents (in your mind anyway)…
     
    sam_gordon repped this.
  17. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007
    The 'street wise' a kid needs to be successful so they wont struggle is the resilience one needs to overcome suboptimal situations.

    Can a kid show up to a game in 45 degree weather and not wear gloves, leggings and a stocking cap? Can a kid keep going in the second half of 90 degree game? Can a kid get a knock and not play on the ground as if he's paralyzed? Can a kid focus and not play grab a×× on a Thursday night practice when they are tired from an almost full week of school? Can a kid get outside every day on their own and get some touches when no one is around to cheer them and FIFA 19 beckons from the inside of their air conditioned house? Can a kid handle being on a lesser team without giving up? I think these are some of the 'street wise' things a kid needs to have before they even get to a level where 'street wise' tactics are a part of the game. If you can't do those things then the 'street wise' things you do simply makes you a punk.
     
    Dirt McGirt and bigredfutbol repped this.
  18. Iniesta62106

    Iniesta62106 Member

    Sep 17, 2018
    I can’t believe I’m saying it but I think I’m with the Eyebrow. Putting kids in a bubble leaves them ill equipped. I would rather training sessions look like the wild, Wild West than Disneyland. To me it’s not that I want my daughter to be a dirty player (and she is certainly not.). But I want her to be savvy and I don’t ever want her to be surprised. I want her to be. . . wise, I guess. This can’t happen if the only time she experiences dirty play is playing against “that” team.
     
  19. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Disagreeing with teaching kids to play dirty and cheap is not putting them in a bubble…Practices/training/coaching can be tough, hard, aggressive, demanding, etc., all without teaching cheating and dirty play…

    How many times does it take to stop being “surprised,” when, for example, someone grabs your jersey from behind? If the answer is more than once…
     
  20. Iniesta62106

    Iniesta62106 Member

    Sep 17, 2018
    But what are “cheating” and “playing dirty?” I agree that I don’t want my kid and her teammates going studs up into every tackle at practice - wouldn’t be much of a team left. But jersey grabbing?

    The only relevant rules are the ones a ref can and does enforce, right? It’s different every game and kids should know how to play without leaving things on the table. They can’t learn this without a training environment that supports it.
     
  21. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member+

    Feb 27, 2017
    Sorry, that's a bunch of BS.
     
  22. Iniesta62106

    Iniesta62106 Member

    Sep 17, 2018
    Well we were first at an Eyebrow style club and now are at a Country club. I see a huge difference not in the level of dirty play, necessarily (although there is some), but in competitive mindset and mental toughness. Huge. The Eyebrow kids wanted to win come hell or high water. The country club kids want to be nice girls. Off the pitch there was no real difference between the two that I could see.
     
  23. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Why would you want kids jersey grabbing all the time at practice, when 9 time out of 10, it will be called in a game? (if anything other than trifling)

    What you are describing is more akin to knowing the difference between a “hard” shoulder tackle and a shoulder tackle using excessive force; that’s a subjective call that can vary from ref to ref…but tackling with excessive force and getting called for it, isn’t not what would call cheating or necessary playing dirty; it’s just misjudging where that line is for that particular game/ref…to me, that something you need figure on the playing field, not the training grounds…
     
  24. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Why do continue to suggest you are either coached/train to cheat/play dirty OR you are coached/train to play soft and weak???
     
  25. Iniesta62106

    Iniesta62106 Member

    Sep 17, 2018
    Well my last post just reflected our experience.

    And why do you assume that kids who are allowed leeway in training won’t be able to tone it down, *if necessary*, in games? You are never going to be able to train and predict exactly your game environment the following weekend. So given that you WILL miss, tone-wise, in training, you are either going to show up with an edge and some fouls called against you, or a little soft but earning some free kicks. I just think it’s better to develop an edge and you can’t do that if you only experience the need for it occasionally. Not to mention that at the highest levels soccer is never soft.
     

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