Steve Nicol?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Badattitude, Jul 7, 2006.

  1. Badattitude

    Badattitude New Member

    May 31, 2003
    partially taken from espnsoccernet.com

     
  2. Mistake

    Mistake New Member

    Jun 13, 2006
    From a 2nd hand source who claims he has USSF information.

    Bob Gansler is Sunil's man if Klinsmann turns down the job. Sigi Schmid doesn't want the job, and Sunil doesn't want any Arena offspring (Bradley).

    Gansler and Sunil go way back.
     
  3. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some quick thoughts on Nicol as a Revs season ticket holder throughout his tenure.

    I think he is a fine coach, but I think selecting him would be a mistake.

    Positives:
    • He gets the most out of marginally talented players and a predictable system/gameplan.
    • He seems to be good at evaluating prospects.

    Negatives (in my humble opinion):
    • He seems loyal to a fault to both players and system and seems to play favorites. Sometimes this results in what I consider to be a starting lineup that does not put the best players on the field nor does it give the Revs the best chance to win.
    • I do not always think he does the best job with his choice of substitutions and he often does not use all of his subs.
    • I do not think he does the best job at making in game adjustments (Every team has the book on the Revs.. they are very predictable.)

    All that said, he has won more than he has lost with what I consider to be a team of average talent (over his tenure), without any real strong senior internationals, and with a lot of leftover cap room. He could be successful as the USMNT coach, but I would prefer other options as a fan of the team.
     
  4. whip

    whip Member

    Aug 5, 2000
    HOUSTON TEXAS
    [QUOTE=Badattitude)

    Ya all people do not learn uh.....:cool:
     
  5. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    He could? then why hasn't he won a damn thing with our stacked Revs? sure he has brought us to the MLS cup twice to lose... and a loss in the U.S. Open Cup... things we hadn't done before he got here.... but we have been the best team over the last 4 seasons... and have zip to show for it... that means an average coach in my oppinion...

    trouble with Nichol you failed to mention...

    overly defensive tactics.. even has players in MLS dribbling to the corner pole to kill off 1-0 games... like that's helping us win fans.... or helping our players develop their skills...

    old english style soccer... always on players to get the ball down the flanks, then cross... cant imagine how many times he has said that during those bogus during game interviews on the sidelines... sorry but if the US is going to take the next step... they need to go at the net not around it... especially with McAir on the way out... and Twellmen aging in years...

    that might be the one positive in this situation... he knows the revs players... and would call a hell of a lot more of them up to camp, as they deserve...
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a non-Revs fans, this is wrong.

    He went from a 4-4-2 to a 3-1-3-1-2, then acquired Hernandez and went to a more traditional 3-5-2 with 2 deeper central mids and one attacking central mids, to a 3-4-3. That's 4 different tactics he's used as his base tactic in about 4 season. Not sure what you really expect.

    As for playing favorites, again, I don't get it. He's demoted Cancela and promoted Dorman and Noonan. You don't see it this year because of the injuries, but in the last couple of seasons he's used different guys on the left. Sure, he always starts Twellman and Joseph and Dempsey every match, but he'd have to be an idiot not to. They're his best players. Also, when he started rookies Riley and Parkhurst last year, obviously they displaced a starter from the year before (I think it was the departed Rusty Pierce.)
     
  7. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lotharis1,

    I think we can both agree that we are frustrated with the Revs inability to win any hardware. I said he could be a winner with the US and cleary I do not think so (more negatives than positives). He will not get the job so we will never know.

    Also, when I said predictable system/gameplan and every team has the book on the Revs it is exactly what you mention in overly defensive tactics and old english style. Thank you for putting it plainly where I did not.

    You used the word "stacked" to describe them and I used the words "marginally talented". You and I differ on the quality of the Revs players, but I am confident there would be a lot of similarities in the changes we would like to see made with the Revs.

    Superdave,

    I wouldn't say I am wrong above, but I would say that we are viewing the same thing two different ways. I agree that Nicol has changed formations or starting alignments often this season, but what he has not changed is tactics. Lotharis1 described the tactics that are used week in and week out as "overly defensive" and "get the ball down the flanks, then cross" and he was right.

    Also, regarding loyalty I think many Revs fans would agree that Nicol does not fancy Cancela's game. He was never a favorite of Nicol's. Nicol rarely uses subs, but when he does often Pepe gets the hook if he is on the field. The loyalty to Joey franchino and distaste for Avery John is a better example. Joey is a limited player who almost always plays when healthy and John (I know he fouls a lot and gets cards, but is more athletic and a better distributor of the ball) never sees the field for the Revs unless forced by injury. Guys like Twellman, Dempsey, Noonan, Joseph, and Ralston are the bread and butter of the team so i agree he would an idiot not to start them.
     
  8. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    he has a good eye for talent. Whoever said he does not scout is dead wrong. In an article somewhere he describes what he saw in Parkhurst and Dempsey. I'm sure he is not the only one scouting but he has a very very good eye for talent. The rest I am agnostic about but his taste in players is damn good. How many here had ever heard of Clint Dempsey before Nicol picked him? I hadn't.
     
  9. Rob Base

    Rob Base Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    'Burque, NM
    His success in finding young talent makes think of Nicol's name for one of our youth national teams. There's a vacancy in the U23s. Success there could lead to him moving into the full men's team. Of course this all assumes that he envisions a longer term in the US, and isn't using MLS as a step back to England?

    As far as him to replace Arena, I agree with the poster's saying that we need someone with as good a pedigree (coaching that is, his playing pedigree is without question) as the Bruce.
     
  10. illinizissou

    illinizissou New Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    This is exactly why Nicol has been my choice from day one. The US needs a leader, who can inspire and adjust to the situation. Perhaps there is someone out there who fits the job better, but I think Nicol certainly fits these qualities.
     
  11. lond2345

    lond2345 Member

    Aug 19, 2002
    USA
    Yes, Nicol was such a great leader in the mls cups he lost where his team played ultra-conservative, ultra-negative, ultra uninspiring soccer, sending everyone watching to sleep.

    Im big time games such as the cup he has left a lot to be desired and you just have to worry about how he would do in big time games in qualifying/world cup.
     
  12. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    right....

    which is why he chose to start Dempsey and Parkhurst right? he picked them out of the draft to put into the team because they were so good... or wait... no he didn't pick Parkhurst, he was played by default because everyone else was injured... and Dempsey was always second choice to Noonan... Now that Noonan had the anjury and has failed to regain his form he plays Dempsey in Noonan's place... befire Dempsey was forced to play the odd man out postions and rotated from center mid to flank with rallston injured, to forward when noonan was injured... and bounced around...

    but to lay it down... Nichol is not the lead scout, nor does he decide on the players picked in the draft... the Revs have a very talented scouting department... and unfortunately one of them is a Kraft kid... so you have to give the overwhelming amount of credit to him... they also have guys

    but the guy that did the scouting/drafting of the majority of our current team is Fernando Clavijo... who did go deep into scouting and picking players... far more than Nichol ever has... and he arranged the Twellmen, Noonan, Joseph, Pearce, Heaps, Franchino, Rallston, John, etc. deals... yes if you want to add that Nichol picked Doorman, who played local Boston soccer while Nichol was a local Boston soccer coach... and perhaps eying him for the Bulldogs...

    The other thing Nichol has failed to do is use his influence and position in England to draw a top level EPL player over to the league/team... which is something I am sure they had in mind when they hired him...

    let's also look at what hasn't been done in the Nichol era... filling the need from our blatant lack of a solid right flank player... a solid free-kick taker... those were the two things lacking when Nichol took over... and they still are glaring problems
     
  13. braun

    braun Red Card

    Feb 22, 2001
    metro Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does Paul Mariner figure in here? When you watch the games, our fine announcers in Boston mention Mariner and Nicol together often. Last match vs Chicago , Mariner was interviewed at halftime and Nicol during the match.
    I consider the two managers to be a tag team, much like Sweden has used.
    I love the two together and having worked with Twellman, Dempsey, Noonan, Reis and Ralston (who may still figure in 2007), they would be fine coaches for us. If they had players to work with that played non-English style, I am sure they would know how to use them. They will have the inside scoop on MLS as well.
    Sounds like viable candidates.
     
  14. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 26, 1999
    Eastern MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC, Parkhurst beat out Llamosa in camp, resulting in the latter getting waived.
     
  15. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    and Dempsey was made a starter from the first game he was on the team. The poster above knows squat.
     
  16. eissman

    eissman Member+

    Feb 5, 2004
    Illinois
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh....For....The....Love....Of....God.

    We are focked if this happens.

    I have seen his training sessions. Clear as mud.
     
  17. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    Llamosa was injured for the first 2 months of the season... and the last 2 weeks of the preseason
     
  18. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    dempsey was made a starter... but not because Nichol saw how great he was... we were injury depleted, and lost key players.... kamler out, heaps out, pearce gone, llamosa never able to make it... hence he brings in rookies to play...

    Llamosa missed all of 2004 with an acl tear... bumped up his knee in one of the preseaon matches... and was never able to recover... we cut him... he tried out for a few teams... and wasn't able to play until the 2nd month of the season with chivas...
     
  19. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    OK....

    (I will refrain from using the insults which typically go along with something of this nature, because I have been warned about insulting other posters.... so I won't evnthough I really should because of this...)

    but for all of you who say I am wrong, and that I don't know what I am talking about... here are nice links AT THE TIME OF THE DRAFTS... which talk about who did out drafting, scouting... AND WHO PICKED OUT DEMPSEY

    Fernando Clavijo... AND JOHN MURPHY!!!!!

    PROOF!!!

    Exhibit A:
    A Rev supporter discussion of who had made the successful draft picks... which speaks several times of Clavijo and Murphy...
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-193707.html

    Exhibit B:
    A discussion of our draft and dempsey in which a GLOBE article (you know that paper which regarding soccer articles seems like the herald and often posts inaccurate propaganda... including citing LLamosa's knee injury--in which he tore his ACL-- as being both on his left and his right knees...) says dempsey was picked because of Nichol... and its poster says "It seems to me that I read on these boards that Nicol didn't even know who he was but drafted Clint on someone elses suggestion. Anybody else remember this or did I dream it? :confused:"
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-188475.html

    and what he obviously was refering to what the actual pre-draft analysis... in which an article talks about Clavijo and Murphy re-uniting in Columbus... and what their successful draft picks were...

    Exhibit C:
    The same Rev supporter discussion board speaking pre-draft
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-161476.html

    Exhibit D:
    The MLSnet article which they interview Clavijo and Murphy on being reunited
    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20050111&content_id=20831&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

    WHICH CLEARLY SPELL OUT IT WAS FERNANDO CLAVIJO AND JOHN MURPHY WHO SCOUTED... AND DRAFTED THESE GUYS!!!!

    Twellmen, Joseph, Dempsey, Doorman, etc....

    they were also responsibe for the excellent dispersal draft pick-ups as well...

    when we picked up Heaps, Pineda Chacon, Mulrooney, AND FRIGGIN RALLSTON

    they also picked up Adin Brown... not bad selections...

    IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR WHO SHOULD BE SCOUTING/EVALUATING THE TALENT FOR THE US MNT THESE ARE THE TWO GUYS FFS....

    although it should be said, that as good as Clavijo was at evaluating talent... he is a terrible coach...

    but let me take this selection of the article and highlight parts of it for you....

    apologies will be expected in the form of reputation points, thank you very much...


    P.S. as far as Parkhurst go he was highly rated on most draft boards, and we needed help on defense... it was a no brainer... shame you never heard of him though....
     
  20. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    Hugh? no responses from the Nichol blowhards?

    what about his eye for talent now?
     
  21. Lothar is 1

    Lothar is 1 Member+

    Oct 21, 1999
    OK so you posted this bad information,
    and I corrected it to mention that Nichol did not do the scouting
    and that most of those guys were drafted by Clavijo
    and scouted by Clavijo and his staff member

    to which someone responded
    and yet I have proven this wrong,
    clearly showing Clavijo and Murphy picked out the talent
    and that Murphy is the one who mentioned Dempsey
    and that Parkhurst was high on the draft boards...

    and no acknowledgement that I am correct
    nor an apology of any sorts...

    and this guy goes along with you guys thinking its true
    and makes the bogus claim
    that Nichol should coach our u-23 teams
    since he is so good with the youth

    and then these two collaborated to attack me
    saying I have no idea what I am talking about
    and instead of knowing "squat"
    I showed you both I was right all along,
    and had the evidence to prove it...

    and in return, does anyone say...
    hey you were right... we were wrong?
    hey we are sorry for constantly insulting you...

    no they ran and hid their tales like cowards

    and I know from looking,
    they have made a number of posts here in the USA Men room
    so they are aware I reponded...

    it leaves me only the choice of negative repping you...
     
  22. Loco4Footie

    Loco4Footie New Member

    Jul 31, 2005
    San Francisco
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    If Gansler is Gulati's man should Klinsmann say "Nein" to the job, I'm leaving the country for good. No coach did more to take U.S. soccer back into the stone age than Bob "defend and defend then kick it long" Gansler. This is a man to whom creativity means a square pass. Is it any surprise his team is un-watchable and insipid?
    My choices from within MLS:
    Peter Nowack: he takes no bull from Players and has handled Freddy pretty well. Plus, his team plays an attractive style of soccer.
    Frank Yallop: He knows MLS well and did wonders with San Jose. He also isn't one of Arena's boys (Bradley, Myernick, Sarachan), which Gulati must make sure he doesn't hire.
    The rest have either no professional playing experience (except for Nicol, who's a Brit, which should automatically disqualify him) at the international level. Most American coaches were either college players or coaches.
    The foreigners:
    Klinsmann: Ok, we know his attributes, so need to rehash here, but before you get completely besotted with him, take into consideration the following:
    1) He didn't have to guide Germany through qualifications because they hosted the event, 2) Until they went up against Argentina, Germany had an easy bracket. Chances are germany wouldn't have won this game if not for Pekerhead's--I mean Peckerman's brain fades, and 3) There's no guarantee that he wasn't anything other than plain lucky during this tournament. So let's not be too quick to join the Klinsy Love-a-thon.
    Hiddinck: He has much more of an international coaching pedigree than Klinsmann. Plus, he's often had to coach with less than brilliant players, which should make him feel right at home with the U.S. team. The USSF should have enough money to coax him out of his Russian contract.
    Frank Rijkaard: Yes, I know he's at Barcelona. But look at his work there and when he coached Holland during the 2000 Euro championship. Like Klinnsman, he's a polyglot and has both coaching and playing credibility.
    All the rest aren't seriously in the running, though there are some ones out there.
     

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