Stealing The North Carolina Governor's Election

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Knave, Nov 21, 2016.

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  1. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
  2. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    As I said in another thread, the NCGOP rarely even tries to hide their intentions.
     
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  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What a crybaby.
     
  4. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
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  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man this country elections are reminding me more and more on how politics and elections work in Mexico.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's desperate. The state legislature isn't exactly stoked about his suggestion. Whether that's because they have scruples, or because they got along poorly with McCrory, or some combination of the two, I have no idea.
     
  7. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
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    United States
    I would suspect that they've seen the backlash from business groups over HB2 and would rather lay low, cut their losses with McCrory, move on, and try to retake the governor in four years, rather than try some shenanigans on his behalf that puts them back in the spotlight when a lot of them are gonna be up for reelection in two years.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope. HB2 is their idea, not McCrory's, and they've weaponized gerrymandering.
     
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  9. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
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    United States
    Fair enough, but at the same time, I'm sure that they didn't expect things to go down the way they did with HB2.
     
  10. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999

    If there's enough of a shift in partisan sentiments, multiple districts that were engineered to have safe (but not too big) majorities can all become unsafe at the same time. And even with a Trump-nominated judge filling the Supreme Court vacancy, the possibility of judicial actions against gerrymandering in state legislatures can't be ruled out.

    Relying on rule manipulation to overcome unpopularity can work in for a party the short term, but can also be dangerous in the long term - especially if the manipulations become a source of unpopularity in their own right. The Republicans as a whole might face that dilemma in another decade or so, if they decide that vote suppression, gerrymandering, etc. are an adequate response to unfavorable demographic currents.
     
  11. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    There is a gerrymandering case before the Supreme Court now.
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ooooh, I wonder how Justice Cruz will vote!
     
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  13. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's gonna be over soon. McCrory is now down almost 10,000 and he's going to get a face saving gesture.
    We're going to have legislative elections next year because of racially Gerrymandered districts. The judges considered waiting till 2018 but decided to have the elections next year.

    The GOPs are going to appeal to the USSC. To quote myself from earlier, gee, I wonder how Justice Cruz will vote.
     
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  14. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    That old joke about having a UN team oversee the voting doesn't seem like a joke anymore.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How bad is the NC gerrymander? In 2012, the Dems got more votes for the legislature, but the GOPs had veto proof majorities. Now, it's 60% here, not 2/3, but still.

    I'm not a fundamentalist that if one party gets 51% of the overall vote, then dammit, they must have 51% of a legislative body. I don't think it's a crisis for democracy that in 2012, the Dems got more votes for US House and the NC legislature and was in the minority in all 3 bodies.

    But it's, if not a crisis, disturbingly close to one, if a party can get a majority of votes and not even be near a majority, if the majority party's 2 or 3 most moderate/most vulnerable members don't matter.
     
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  16. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    In some important ways, that comparison is unfair - to Mexico.

    After all, Mexico has a politically independent institution to oversee national elections (the IFE). That puts them way ahead of the US, where election oversight is partisan. In this country, the electoral game's referees are often members of one of the competing teams.
     
  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So were the ones at IFE. (it is now called INE)

    But I do get your point, our states should set up IFE like departments, I would vote for that.
     
  18. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Actually, my sense is that since the mid-1990s, the IFE/INE (thanks for correcting the outdated name) has been pretty nonpartisan and independent in practice.

    The contrast really came to the fore in 2000, when Mexico had a fully democratic presidential election to end PRI rule, and the USA had Katharine Harris.
     
  19. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's one going to the USSC from Wisconsin based on gerrymandering.
     
  20. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sunil's in no place to be making rational decisions right now. This is a bad move.
     
  21. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he's in Wisconsin, I think is should be moved to the Wilderness thread.
     
  22. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only reason the democrat one is that all the other judge races are partisan, and the Republicans were listed first. For the top court, Mike Morgan, by lot, was listed first on the ballot. The Independent did a study and found that in county after county, Morgan's vote reflected the lower court GOP vote.

    This was all Republcian shenanigans to begin with. It's funny that they were hoisted in their own petard.
    http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/how-did-mike-morgan-win/Content?oid=5090915
     
  24. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The case hinges on a really interesting system that evaluates the severity of partisan gerrymandering called the wasted vote theory and, associated with that, the efficiency gap. If you haven't read about it, I'd recommend checking it out, because there's a good chance it becomes a judicial standard of evaluation in the future.

    IIRC the guy who came up with the system is Nick Stephanopolous at the University of Chicago Law School.
     
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