Review: Start criticizing and holding players accountable

I agree. Who is the dumbass who doesn't weed out the bad players and doesn't breed competition within the team? That guy should be fired.

 

Doubtful. He signed a multi year contract at designated allocation wages March 2. The Timbers see him as central to what they are doing.

 

Why blame the players? They didn't play below their usual skill or effort. If anything, they did better than anybody expected?

 

WTF are you talking about?

My point was that criticizing the players means nothing if the coach keeps playing them regardless of performance. I happen to disagree with the assessment that Michael Bradley should be benched, but let's say the media goes all in on criticizing Bradley's play. It means nothing if Klinsmann keeps calling him in and starting him. Beckerman has been declining since the World Cup. Wondo has always been out of his depth against non-CONCACAF opponents. This is not news to any of us. But Klinsmann keeps calling them in. How is that the player's fault? And if the media does go all in on criticizing a player, do you really think Klinsmann will pay attention? He hasn't exactly shown a tendency to listen to criticism from anyone other than himself.

I'm also not sure what media criticism will really result in. Does anyone think Bradley is on the plane ride right now thinking "I played well yesterday and I am awesome, no one in the media is criticizing me"? He's probably ********ing pissed off at himself and the way the team played overall.

And I don't know who Cowherd is paying attention to, but plenty of people here called Jones's actions stupid. Plenty of people here have ripped Bradley, Wondo, and others for poor play. The criticism is certainly there.

 

So don't pick Bradley. Nobody pulled a Harrison Barnes and just shit the bed, everybody played like the players that they are. It's not Wondo's fault he sucked, he's not that good.

 

In fact, the Timbers are probably peeing their pants at their luck. It was widely thought that Nagbe was going to feature at the Copa, get a lot of Euro scouts noticing, and then he would be a certain transfer target. Since Herr Klinsi has used another major tournament to take a massive Cleveland steamer on the US fanbase and FIFA rankings, it is pretty much a guarantee that Nagbe won't leave MLS anytime soon.

Oh? JK Gave MLS what they wanted? Maybe MLS owners, but MLS fans know that guys like Zardes, Zusi, Wondolowski, Beckerman, and even Bradley aren't the best US players in MLS at those respective positions. And like you said, the only MLS player who made a real impact, besides Jones and Dempsey, was Nagbe, who got scant minutes.

Fun fact: Bob Bradley took an MLS B-Team to the Copa in 2007 and had a better run than Klinsi's "Starting XI Next Level BS" team. And COMNEBOL eviscerated Bradley and the USSF for not taking the Copa America seriously.

But no, it's the players. Can't possibly be this idiot who grins at losses, consistently contradicts what he says with what he does, consistently leaves difference-making players off tournament rosters, and picks rosters like a guy whose knowledge of US Soccer comes exclusively from "information" entirely gleaned from FourFourTwo magazine.

 

I'll play.

Bradley: plenty of calls to bench him that don't need me to repeat -- my specific beef is not the tangible game play (which has unquestionably suffered) but the intangibles of leadership. I thought he had more of that but if it's in there it's concealed.

Guzan: I have long been a supporter, and I have not given up (I think we all recognize the longer arc of keepers' careers). But the ARG match was a poor showing (the rest OK not great). Too dramatic and unfair to other players to give the 3rd place game to a different keeper but I hope a younger goalie is given some pre-hex WCQ matches.


...after those, nothing I saw surprised me.

I can't criticize players for performing exactly as I expect them to*, only those who disappoint.


* and here I include the players who got themselves suspended. I don't criticize them because nothing about how those events played out surprised or disappointed me in the moment (not claiming I predicted): ardor, youth, and fatigue in that order. I won't blame players for inherent characteristics.

 

The difference is that guys would get booed off the pitch if they were playing in other leagues when they got back from a debacle like ARG. But way too many MLS fans just think that these players are "our guys" and therefore have to be protected from all criticism. That's why guys like Michael Bradley act like petulant children every time they have the nerve to be challenged.

 

He's 100% spot on.

I've said a number of times the criticism NFL or NBA players get, or players playing overseas, is an element completely missing from our landscape. It's mostly due to if one were to criticize/hammer our own players, it opens a can of worms no one wants to confront, that being poor domestic development and our domestic environment. And that....would be bad for business. You see how Garber and MLS owners lash out at any criticism Jurgen levies at MLS, not because they're interested in truth and confronting real issues but rather, they're most interested in protecting their investment. It's the environment created and if one were to question the cartel, they risk losing access. Communism.

They're now talking about it on Around the Horn. They're acknowledging it as well, we don't hold players accountable. You don't have to be much of a soccer guy to understand this. It's obvious.

What you see is a large segment of fans/writers, usually those with an agenda to push related to MLS, bending over backwards to excuse any accountability MLS has on supplying talent to the NT or the performances of their players when it's not good enough. There's a refusal to admit one of the most basic issues in sports, "we need better players". Any hint of that is conveniently brushed off as "eurosnobbery" and being "anti-MLS". Nice little defense mechanism installed to dance around the issues.

Jurgen gets slammed repeatedly. Some of it warranted, much of it not. But the same guys who go in on him flat out refuse to do the same with the rest of our landscape. Still waiting for a single MLS writer to put the effort they put into slamming Jurgen and writing about him into an honest assessment of our development and system. Just one. Just a single good, thorough story. Instead, article number 537 of our great HG system is ready to be put into print. Meanwhile, I don't think Messi knew the name of a single one of players. Maybe Clint.

 

You've lost me here.

 

Baby the manager, and it's no surprise what results from it.

 

OK, now I regret playing.

I thought this was a Big Soccer forum discussion; I would never have participated if I thought it was a Twitter flame war.

Golly, can't we all just get along?

 

So, do you lie for fun? We finished with 0 wins and 3 losses in the '07 Copa with a total of 2 goals for and 8 against.

 

They only allow three. Klinsi is the guy who normally needs all 6 subs to get a result. That didn't use to be the problem with Bradley and Arena.

No, I don't lie. In 2007 our team actually had shots on goal, and scored the first goal before going down 4-1.

I'm saying that Bob Bradley, with far less, put up a better result than Klinsi when faced with Argentina.

And yes, I lambasted Bob Bradley for that match too.

Fun fact--We don't always go down 4-0 to Argentina, even in tournaments, and our players now are much better than the players then. Why's that?

 

Let me guess, you wear a Barcelona kit you bought at the mall to work?

 

Didn't Bradley get into a shouting match a few days after Wynalda had the balls to call him out a few years back?

Either way, the number one priority of most is to "fall in line with MLS" and not bite the hand which feeds you. Garber said as much in his tantrum against Jurgen, essentially saying "you're either with us or against us but don't criticize us", then the league's website fired a Rapids reporter for daring to question their sucktitude.

That's the environment which has been created.

Wynalda is actually critical of much of our landscape. Notice Fox took him off Copa duty. Better for business to have the "fall in line" Lalas up there and hide Wynalda in a closet well off camera. Wynalda's been black-balled by MLS for his honesty. That's what happens when you don't fall in line.

 

I don't think MLS players get coddled in terms of the national team. Around here they tend to be held to a harsher standard than the Euro-based guys, whose weaker performances are more likely to be overlooked or given a mark up. For example, Yedlin (who is pretty clearly the best right back option in the pool, for the record) has had a mediocre at best tournament. If he were in MLS and played exactly the same in this tournament, he would be getting more criticism, called naive, with people saying he has to go to Europe to tighten his game. Instead crickets.

One of the weirdest things about the Klinsmann tenure has been his tendency to get into feuds with MLS leadership and even players on account of public statements he makes and then on the flip side to call up a fair number of MLS players whose ability was or is borderline at the USMNT level. I am probably somewhat pro-MLS on the overall spectrum of USMNT fans, but I would never have brought Davis or Wondo to the WC. Jurgen could call more Europe-based guys if he wanted to--a few more guys playing in decent leagues (Lichaj, Williams, Ream, Morales, plus a few Liga MX options) are in the pool, but for some reason he lets his words say one thing and his actions say something completely different.