Squad thread: 2012 close season edition

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by tigerdave, May 13, 2012.

  1. tigerdave

    tigerdave Member

    Aug 23, 2004
    Buhl, Idaho
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know there's only been about four hours since the season ended, but now's as good a time as any to assess the squad going forward, I guess. There's going to be a lot of pressure on whomever we send out there next season, both in terms of having the 2-8-however many extra games from the Europa League in addition to the weight of expectation of replicating this kind of season.

    Pardew said it best in the post-mortem when he said we just shipped too many goals. I think there are three chief areas of concern that we have to address: defensive depth, set-pieces (whether by a taker or finishers, or both), and a striker to carry the load when Ba and Cisse are off for ACoN, which happens again next season.

    Here's my assessment of the squad, for what it's worth. It's long, but hopefully it'll start some discussion....

    GK: Krul is well on his way to becoming one of the very best keepers around. Arguably one of the best in the Premier League. Behind him the pickings are slim. We didn't see enough of Elliot to get a read on him, and Harper's contract is expiring and I doubt we bring him back. We sold Ole Soderberg during the season and Fraser Forster looks destined to be sold to Celtic if we can ever agree a price with him.

    Verdict: May need to do some work to bring someone in to challenge Elliot for No. 2 and push Krul. Absolutely have to hang on to Krul, glad to see the rumors of him to Chelsea/somewhere else die down for the time being.

    D: Our Achilles' heel, and was it ever a large one. We were never really comfortable after Steven Taylor went down against Chelsea. The fact that we pitched 15 clean sheets, including that run in April, is astonishing. Coloccini is a rock, but as he goes so goes the team. When he gets caught out and put under pressure we look like we're all at sea. Steven Taylor is an inspirational type, finally had the look of a capable Premier League defender, but he can't seem to stay healthy. We missed his goal-scoring ability on set pieces as well as his budding ability in the rearguard. Santon will be better than Jose Enrique at some point. He's an absolute star in the making and I'm glad to see Pardew's magic working to get another mercurial guy playing at his best. Simpson I'm not sure about, as you all well know. He has a knack for clearing balls off the line but he finds himself out of position too often and doesn't offer much going forward. Also rumored to be wanting more money or a change in his payout structure that we don't want to agree to. Could be off in the summer, with a year left on his contract. Williamson has improved so much since last season, but he's still the weak link in our back line. Isn't quick enough, isn't comfortable at all with the ball at his feet, gets drawn out of position, turns away from shots instead of trying to close them down. Very good Championship defender for me, can't be any more than a fourth option for us if we're to go forward. Perch and Ryan Taylor are immense for us in a lot of ways. They're not the most skilled defenders we have but they both put in a shift wherever Pardew puts them on the pitch and give it everything every time out. Perch is incredibly versatile and Taylor probably is our best set-piece guy if I'm honest. They're valuable squad players that can do a job when called upon.

    Verdict: Simpson is probably gone, in my view, with how long this contract saga has gone on. We'll probably sell him and bring in Debuchy, Cabaye's mate, from Lille. Need probably one more fullback for cover and one or two central defenders to steady the back.

    M: By far our deepest position. Tiote is a beast when he's on, and he did a great job cutting down on the yellow cards this season while not completely losing his edge. Still gives the ball away too much and puts pressure on the defense, but when he's on he's one of the very best defensive midfielders around. Cabaye for me was the most instrumental player in our success. He got stuck in early, getting used to the tempo and physicality of the Premier League as compared to Ligue 1, and I think that allowed him to shine when we gave him more attacking authority in the 4-3-3. As complete a player as we have. Jonas is an incredibly important player for us, especially when we go 4-3-3. He's tireless and he has enough defensive know-how to complement Tiote and Cabaye perfectly. He's bulked up and lost a little bit of his pace (not a whole lot, mind you), and his end product means he can't really be an above-average winger in the Premier League, but he brings a lot more to the table in a second holding midfield role. Ben Arfa is our sparkplug, and as frustrating as it is to see him take three guys on by himself, he beats them and gets a great opportunity at goal more often than he should. With his improved willingness to track back and help out at the defensive end, he's becoming a well-rounded player that makes life hard for opposing wide men. Guthrie has done a job when called upon, and I believe he's underrated, but I just don't see regular football for him here and that's why he's probably going to go elsewhere. Obertan has some skill, I just get the sense that his confidence is really low and he's a guy that needs to have some sustained success to find his top gear. Maybe it'll happen with us, maybe it won't. Gosling, we have to remember, is only 22 and still recovering from a major injury. I'd expect him to get more time next year.

    Verdict: Guthrie is probably on the way out. I hope Tiote isn't, but I can't shake the feeling he'll be the big name out the door. Romain Amalfitano is a name we see a lot in reports as being already tied up. Could be a good complementary/development guy. Marveaux is going to be like a new signing, plus the presumed introduction of Vuckic/Sammy/Abeid/Ferguson on a more regular basis. Wouldn't expect too much action in the midfield unless it's to replace Tiote. Smith's contract also expires, which will shave some tremendous wages off the books. I saw some rumblings he'd like to stay on as a coach and I'd love to have him in that capacity, but he's barely a Championship player now.

    F: Demba one, Demba two, we've got more Dembas than you ... hopefully it stays that way. Demba Ba came on like a house on fire, but you've got to think someone's going to try and activate that release clause (whatever it is). Hopefully he understands that the grass isn't always greener (are you listening, Jose Enrique?) and only to PSG (which I doubt would want him) would I not begrudge a move. For some of the histrionics, he worked hard when put out on the left and still put himself into chances to score goals. Just needed some confidence. He and Cisse should be a dangerous scoring combo next season. 29 goals between the two of them, just imagine if they're firing at the same time! Shola has always been a loyal servant, and I actually regret saying we needed to cut bait with him when we loaned him to Stoke a while back. He understands the club better than anyone else involved with it, and I think for that reason alone he's invaluable, not to mention his penchant for mackem slaying. Best is a very good Championship striker, maybe even a good Premier League striker. He was so good for us when he got that run of games to start the season and then it just didn't work out. I'd like to see him get another shot at some point, but it might not be until ACoN time. Lovenkrands I'll always have a soft spot for, but he's not going to get games and if he wants to keep playing it's going to have to be somewhere else unfortunately. Xisco has one more year on his contract, but considering he only got 12 appearances and one goal at second-division Deportivo ... we're probably stuck paying someone else to play him for another year. Ranger may also be back unless we can sell him off to Wednesday or someplace else.

    Verdict: We probably need one more. Must be able to find the net and must not be African. We're pretty well established here as well. If Ba goes we'll probably have to find a second.

    Roster as it stands right now (for Premier League regulations purposes)
    GK (2): Krul*, Elliot*
    D (6): Williamson*, Coloccini, Perch*, Steven Taylor*, Ryan Taylor*, Simpson*
    M (7): Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Gosling*, Jonas, Marveaux, Tiote, Obertan
    F (5): Ba, Cisse, Shola Ameobi*, Best*, Xisco

    Underage: Santon, Abeid, Sammy Ameobi, Vuckic, Ferguson, Tavernier
    Players with contracts expiring: Harper, Guthrie, Smith, Lovenkrands
     
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  2. divingheader

    divingheader Member

    Nov 10, 2001
    St John, NB, Canada
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Forwards:
    I think it is an open question whether Ba, who had a great season for us and works hard and heap some more praise on its OK, leaves this summer. We get a fee, even if it is small. We would then not lose BOTH our top strikers for a month at ACoN. If he leaves early, we will have time to recruit, the worst case is a release-claus required departure the day the window closes.

    Fact is, the Double Demba attack has not, and likely won't, produce goals for both of them. If it stays the way it is, Ba will leave on his terms without regard to timing for the club's good.

    I like, picking from our end of season performances, a lone front striker with 2 wings/attacking mids. For the wing/AM choice we have Ben Arfa, Jonas, Obertan, Marveaux, Vukcic, Sammy, Ferguson, maybe Santon, maybe Gosling. Raylor. In other words, plenty. Ba won't be happy as the back up striker, or starting every other game, and he isn't likely to surpass Cisse.

    So replace Ba while keeping Best, and we only have to bring in one stiker, and have a fee to apply toward it; and Best would likely be happy and succesful being the grafter when we play with 2 strikers, and Shola gives up depth.

    Of course, if ba signed a new contract eliminating the release claus and indicating he is happy to partner Cisse even though it looks like he will not be the main recipient of chances, things change. But we are still out of luck during ACon.
     
  3. MagpieFan

    MagpieFan Member+

    Apr 25, 2004
    Back in DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cisse says he's staying

    Hooray! I believe Tiote had an earlier statement about "all his goals being achievable at Newcastle" but it seems from chatter here that people still see him being a target for other teams to poach and/or Ashely to sell?
     
  4. Russell1892

    Russell1892 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Newcastle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    To be fair to Ashley, he gets a bit of a hard time from the media for selling players but I think its a bit disingenuous. I can only really think of Carroll being sold and the money was too good to turn down, and it's pretty much universally agreed on that we got the best part of that deal. Go back further and you might have a case for James Milner being sold against KK's protestations, but other than that I can't remember a recent case where we cashed in on a player and it wasn't in the best interests of the squad or the club. Strange really because Lerner at Villa is much more interested in selling players to balance the books yet barely ever gets mentioned in the same way.

    Having said that I think we will lose a top player this Summer, rumours of City and Chelsea being in for Tiote. The strange thing about that though it that I can't see why either team needs him. Same with talk of Krul going off somewhere (who needs a goalkeeper amongst the top clubs?). Ba might go but we won't get much for him. He's looked out of sorts since February, I know there's a narrative that says Ba has been sacrificing himself for the good of the team etc, but he still badly lost goal-scoring form. Missing a penalty against the Mackems wasn't because of Cisse. Rumours are that his missus hasn't settled in England and wants to leave. Its slightly reminiscent of Jose last year after January when he seemed to have decided he was leaving. Again though, which team above us would want Ba? Have teams been put off by his loss of form since January? But lets not imagine that he's the kind of player to stay at a club loyally, twice now he's walked out on his club.

    Obviously we definitely need CB cover, which is a shame because Saylor and Colo looked like a dominant partnership. If Saylor could have stayed healthy we probably would have qualified for the CL. Pardew was talking about needing a CB who can also chip in with a few goals from corners, we have that in Saylor. But there's no harm in having three top CBs going for two positions.

    I also heard from a mate of mine who was at a Peter Beardsley talk-in and apparently he was raving about Marveaux, saying what a technically brilliant player he is and how next season he could be a massive player for us. If we can get him back and fit that's almost like having a new signing.

    Finally Alan Smith's contract is now up... that should free up £60k a week in the budget (thanks for that Fat Sam).
     
  5. supersewelly

    supersewelly Member

    Aug 29, 2007
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Good posts and some nice analysis of the squad as we stand.

    For me - I'd be looking at a first choice fullback, a quality CB (we need 3 considering Taylor's fitness record) and then probably a versatile forward with age on his side.

    Other than that I can see any incomings being young development players (Pardew keeps mentioning trying to improve the 'underbelly') and maybe replacements for squad outgoings like Guthrie. Amalfitano and Butterfield have been linked frequently and seem like they're being targeted for that purpose.
     
  6. divingheader

    divingheader Member

    Nov 10, 2001
    St John, NB, Canada
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both Carroll and Milner are in the England team. Toon has made some great progress. Are we at the point where we could now NOT make the deals that sent those players out? Not just the owner refusing the cash, but having the player in question decline to leave.
     
  7. Shameus

    Shameus Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Middle of a Migraine
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The club finally looks like it may have finally gotten to the point where it doesn't need to sell to ensure income at this point. The financial ****ing the Fat Freddy put this club through only continued due to the debt the club has had to work off in Ashley's early years. The club had to make those sales to help the bottom line. I believe the club, at this point here and now, is finally at a point where we don't have to take offers to help the bottom line. Now I doubt that Ashley is going to turn down silly money if someone comes in for a player during the summer though. There is a difference though in making a 300% or 400% profit on a player, silly money Ashley the businessman won't turn down, and the years of Milner's and Carroll's types of deals that had to be made for solvency issues.
     
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  8. Shameus

    Shameus Member

    Apr 3, 2007
    Middle of a Migraine
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am still basking in this season that saw the team finish fifth and have a chance on the last day to qualify for Champions League. While the team will still get to play in Europe in the Europa Cup next season, the team needs reinforcements desperately in some areas while others are much more reinforced than the transfer rumors would have us believe. My assessments are based on current players and do not take movement into account. I am one of those crazy people who thinks we can keep everyone.

    Need Scale: 1-5 (1 low to 5 high need)

    GK:

    Krul and Elliot really are it. Harper has been a great servant for the club but it is time for him to move on to another club or into the backroom staff. Forester is as good as gone and I don't see Alnwick or Baird as capable of coming out of the youth/reserves to do anything meaningful.

    Reinforcement need: 3

    CB:

    Colo and Saylor form a good starting pair whether your talking about an EPL or Europa team. Willo is a capable back up but that is it. It looks like the only two prospects who may have a chance at being anything out of the youth/reserves are Henderson and Streete. Streete is way too young and Henderson wasn't brought in over Perch so I have very little faith in his ability.

    Reinforcement need: 4

    OB:

    Santon going forward is a lock to start at one of the outside back spots. There are more and more rumors of Simpson being sold in the summer. With only Tavernier looking like a solid prospect/back up at this point out of the youth/reserves, this position is in dire need of reinforcement.

    Reinforcement need: 5

    CM:

    Cabaye and Tiote are firmly entrenched as the starters and are quality no matter the opposition of EPL or Europa. I am putting Jonas in this group as well because I think he could be quality in the middle of the park. Jonas is an average at best winger who dribble into trouble too much and can't cross to save his life. His one redeeming quality is his two way play. For the past few seasons he has helped to control the oppositions attack from his side and it seems like he can run for days. That to me sounds like a box to box CM or a DM. In the 4-3-3 that Pardew wants to play he has slotted into the middle and seems to be doing a good job there. From the youth/reserves the team has Gosling, Abeid, Vuckic, and Richardson. There is an abudance of talent and depth in the middle of this team. Guthrie is not going to get the minutes he wants so it's best to let him walk.

    Reinforcement need: 1

    OM:

    This is another position of strength for Newcastle at the moment. Ben Arfa, Marveaux, Obertan, Ferguson, and SAMeobi give the squad speed, depth, and flair to attack from outside in on opponents. None of these players would be considered a traditional wing, Ferguson is probably the closest, but all of the players can attack the opposition and put them on their back foot in a step. In a pinch Jonas can move back out into these positions as well. Again like CM there is an abudance of talent and depth here and the team looks prepared to play more of these players next season.

    Reinforcement need: 1

    Forward:

    Ba and Cisse have formed a very good partnership this season. Together they have almost scored 30 EPL goals this season with Ba as the first half catalyst and Cisse in the second half of the season. If last summer someone would have told me we'd have gotten almost 30 goals from a striker I would have said they are crazy. But you put their two half seasons together and that is what you get. Shola as Dave put it is a servant of the club like Harper and understands the fans and team. He's also a local lad and the press does eat that up. Plus he'll be needed at least twice a season when we play the DMB. Best is honestly above his depth. He would be a nice reserve piece but I would rather give someone else a chance. I can see a few Championship, maybe some of the teams that go down and need to buy after their sell off, or some of the newly promoted clubs that want to give a flyer on him. He would be good to play against the bottom quarter of the league in the EPL but out of his depth in Europe or the top 3/4s of the EPL. The youth/reserves look to have produced some some-what promising prospects in Campbell and Taylor; but they are both probably too far off to provide any help next season.

    Reinforcement need: 2

    Utility:

    Perch and Raylor can play any of 3-4 positions as outside backs, DMs, CMs, and even come CB. They give the club some nice flexibility off the bench and against some low level European squads in the Europa Cup. We shouldn't be counting on them to hold down starting minutes at an one position though. Clubs always need players like this, and while this surpises me because I wanted them both gone a year ago, and Newcastle will need both players going forward next season.

    Reinforcement need: 1

    Transfer rumors and targets:

    Debuchy: RB for Lille, plays a definite position of need for the club, is a close friend of Cabaye's, and Pardew has hinted that a friend of Cabaye's is being discussed to be brought in. Would also fit description of Pardew's in a recent interview who said they had a player or two who were heading off to the Euro's they wanted to sign before the tournament.

    Amalfitano: CM/AM from Reims, doesn't really play a position of need unless we lose some of our mids during the summer. Would add attacking skill, playmaking ability, and flair to the club. Would be an improvement behind Cabaye/Jonas/Tiote/HBA in midfield depth. Would be on a free as he is out of contract.

    Butterfield: CM from Barnsley, out of contract and could be signed for cheap, would give the club a England/homegrown spot for the EPL and Europa to balance out out of the non homegrown players. Not sure how much better he would be over Abeid, Vuckic, or Gosling so the homegrown slot and the fact that he is an England U-21 player are only advantages I see.

    Corgnet: CM/AM from Dijon, would probably cost less than £ 5 million, look up at the Amalfitano description and repeat it here, is probably better than Amalfitano, but description is the same.

    Eljero Elia: AM/OM from Juve, this one is my idea. He is unhappy at Juve after moving there from Hamburger last summer. Would be a definite upgrade at the AM/OM position opposite HBA. Only question is can we afford his wages. There are several rumor linking him with moves away from Juve. We can offer playing time and Europe. Think it would be another one of those buy low situations.
     
  9. supersewelly

    supersewelly Member

    Aug 29, 2007
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    I think some of the thought behind the Butterfield and Amalfitano links (apart from being probable Guthrie replacements) is that they are seen as squad players who are capable of playing right now, having lots of first team games behind them at 22/23.

    I really liked what I've seen of Abeid and Vuckic but I'm wondering whether the plan is to loan them both out next season. It would probably be a good idea, they are desperately in need of gametime at this crucial age but not at the point where they can be relied upon by a team competing for top 7 of the Premier League. Obviously though then you're left with making tough choices a year or two down the line with lots of players in their early-mid twenties.
     
  10. Russell1892

    Russell1892 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Newcastle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The club announced the other day which players shall be leaving this summer on frees:

    McLoven, Guthrie, Alan Smith, Samuel Adjei, Phil Airey, Ryan Donaldson, Stephen Folan, Jeff Henderson, Tamas Kadar, Greg McDermott and Patrick Nzuzi

    Airey, Donaldson and Kadar were highly talked of at one point.

    The kids who have been offered extensions are; Paul Dummett, Bradden Inman, Conor Newton, Michael Richardson and James Tavernier.
     
  11. Russell1892

    Russell1892 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 7, 2007
    Newcastle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England


    Every goal from the PL for this last season. Ah the memories.... Not sure which one is my favourite.
     
  12. GatewayRSC

    GatewayRSC Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    St Louis
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see Ba staying, he doesn't want to play second to Cisse. Hopefully we can get a good fee for him.
    Agree that Coloccini needs some help in the back. As a Yank I'd love to see Bocanegra back there, may even be able to get him for free depending on how things go at Rangers. He's certainly not a long-term solution at 33 but he could help fill the gap until some of the youngsters are ready.

    Dream scenario for me would be Ba and Tiote leaving and getting Dempsey to replace them. I know it's not going to happen but I can dream right?
     
  13. JaredSS07

    JaredSS07 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 6, 2005
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't tell if you are being serious or trolling...

    Steven Taylor is better than Bocanegra. How will Dempsey replace both Ba and Tiote?
     
  14. GatewayRSC

    GatewayRSC Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    St Louis
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not being serious, but not trolling either.

    Like I said it's what I'd like to see because I like those players. Boca's not better than Taylor (at least not at his age) but you could likely get him for nothing and still add more peices in the back.
    And obviously Dempster couldn't replace both players but the fees from selling them could get the money to land Dempsey and he could replace Tiote. Leave Cisse by himself up front with Dempsey behind him with Ben Arfa, Obertan, Cabaye, Jonas, and Ameobi around him.

    But like I said it will never happen, but it would make me happy.
     

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