Post-match: Sporting Kansas City - San Jose Earthquakes (Saturday, 3/18) postgame thread [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. SJTillIDie

    SJTillIDie Member+

    Aug 23, 2009
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was not intending to pin this all on Francis, just pointing out a glaring problem that still continues and is infuriating. We all knew francis would be a problem if he was kept as LB starter and sure enough he is. Horrible planning by Front Office not to deal with this in the off season.

    I agree Bingham more individually at fault for this game but usually he is a stud so he gets a pass. Whereas the Francis thing happens every game - other teams leave him wide open intentionally b/c they know he will cough it up cheaply. That's why I was focusing on Francis.

    Yes the team was bad back to front it struggled with SKC's high press.
     
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  2. ColinMcCarthy

    ColinMcCarthy Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I think Dom likes Alashe for set pieces and because he covers a lot of ground, running. I think you can cover less amount of ground if you can pass well, which Ceren does well. Especially now that we have some better options up top (Urena) and out wide (TT or Hyka). If we are going to try to pass our way out of things we need to go all in, and not hedge. Alashe to me feels like a hedge.
     
  3. Sactown Soccer

    Jul 29, 2007
    Redding
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Line up I want to see next game:
    ---------------Marco----Wondo-------
    Hyka-------------Godoy----------TT
    --------------------Jungwirth----------
    Colvey--Imperiale---Bernardez--Lima
    ------------------Bingham------------------
    I would be ok with trying Alashe at CB instead of Imperiale, but it would be nice to get Jungwirth's distribution in the midfield so that Godoy could stay higher. Also Colvey looked mostly good for us last year moving the ball forward, and we need someone besides Francis so why not?
     
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  4. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    During 2016, Ceren took 16 shots (two on goal) in 891 minutes. Alashe took 19 shots (nine on goal) in almost three times the minutes (2335) and Godoy took 28 shots (nine on goal) in 1941 minutes. I don't think your analysis stands up to the statistics...
     
  5. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Agreed. Colvey and Imperiale are good -- and intelligent -- players who allow for a better organized attack. And Thompson needs to start over Dawkins.
     
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  6. staudio

    staudio Member+

    Mar 7, 2008
    Marin
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thought I read that Cummings should be ready to go in time for the NYCFC ..not ready to go a full 90 but at least to get some playing time.....maybe he'll get some playing time agains Sac Town to help get into game shape....
     
  7. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #57 JazzyJ, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
    I think Alashe passes OK. I think he gets a bit of a bad rap. Neither of them are really great at holding the ball under pressure to buy some space in which to pass the way Godoy can do to some extent. I am bothered by Cerén's seeming reluctance to use his left foot for all but the shortest of passes, and even then, he might do some kind of gyration to get it on his right. As a starting center mid in MLS, IMO you need to be able to use both feet well or you will get marked to expose your weakness.

    Quick look at whoscored shows that Cerén is indeed rated higher in passing - 84ish pass completion vs. 81ish for Alashe, and Cerén tries more long balls. So I think you're right - you gain something in passing with Cerén but you trade that off with speed, coverage, and set piece danger factor.
     
  8. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm almost on board with this. I think Colvey would be an improvement on the backline, and I like Imperiale. But I also like Alashe, I know, a minority opinion here.

    But yes, Dawkins and Francis both have to sit. TT needs to start.

    But in any case, Colvey is with Reno, so he won't be playing for us. I would like to see this:
    ---------------Marco----Wondo-------
    Hyka-------------Godoy----------TT
    --------------------Alashe----------
    Andrés--Florian---Bernardez--Lima
    ------------------Bingham------------------

    Imperiale is a big upgrade over Francis, especially in the passing. He wouldn't get forward as often, but that's no loss really, given that Francis brings nothing to the table offensively.

    Another "problem" with your lineup, is that you are hoping for a diamond midfield, which of course, we'll never get with Dom at the helm. It's not that I disagree with you. It's that I think Dom disagrees and we won't see a diamond, we'll get the flat, holding center-mids that he's so in love with.

    Go Quakes!!
    2-0-1 so far . . .

    - Mark
     
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  9. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's early but our three opponents are a combined 1W-5T-3L (0.89 PPG), or 0W-5T-1L (0.83 PPG) in games not against the Quakes... Vancouver in particular are a mess and seem to have no interest in playing with 11 men this season.
     
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  10. Sactown Soccer

    Jul 29, 2007
    Redding
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like Alashe too, but I feel like Jungwirth in the midfield would give you the same positives as Alashe plus better passing.

    Agree that Andres on the outside would be better than Francis but not as good as Colvey. Is Colvey on a season long loan or just a per game basis?

    I was going for a 4-1-3-2, slightly different but pretty similar to a diamond. But even that might be too offensive for Dom like you said.
     
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  11. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Holy Crap! Le Pew! Que horrible!

    That's worser than I thought. (I've been a bit busy and haven't devoted quite as much time as usual to my soccer addiction. Probably a good thing on the whole.)

    I just watched Robinson taking questions from the press. I like that he didn't blame his players for their lack of success, and very straightforwardly said that they have to do better starting immediately.

    So wow, we've gotten to beat up on some crappy teams. The Sporks are "undefeated," but hadn't scored a goal until they played us.

    This could be a long ugly season.

    I see that RSL fired Cassar today. I wonder why our coach gets so much more slack?

    go quakes!

    - Mark
     
  12. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca

    The offense sucks when Shaun is in the game. This is not a matter of debate, it's a provable fact. In 64 games with San Jose, he has scored zero goals and recorded a single assist.

    In the three seasons he has played here:

    2014 2nd lowest scoring team (only Chivas USA worse)
    2015 3rd lowest scoring team (Colorado and RSL worse)
    2016 WORSE SCORING TEAM IN LEAGUE

    Teams clearly have the game plan to stop SJ. Just leave Shaun wide open the moment the Quakes get possession. They know that as soon as the team starts to play through him, the Quakes will not get into the attacking third with possession. Because not only are the Quakes not scoring goals, they are not creating very many chances during the run of play.

    Of course you can't blame it all on Francis (or Sarkodie when he's in for Francis), but it's a non-refutable fact that opposing coaches are targeting him in the transition from offense to defense. They want him on the ball as much as possible and it's working.

    My easy to make prediction. If Dom coaches the rest of the season (and continues to play Francis and Sarkodie), then SJ will once again finish in the bottom 3 in scoring and miss the playoffs again.
     
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  13. chris thebassplayer

    Feb 18, 2014
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    We're only three games into a season that lasts an eternity. First road performance was a bit of an train wreck.

    I agree Vanc with 11 and KC focused a lot of pressure getting someone in Lima's face as early as possible...limiting his overlap opportunities...,daring Francis' side to beat them...which they know is a good bet for them. If it is easy for us to see, I'm sure the coaching staff is working on an adjustment.

    I'd like to see Hoesens get a start in NY with Urena subbing in. Getting some hold up play up top would help when other teams press us...we can bypass it if we play more direct as an option...with Wondo underneath Hoesens.

    We struggled to break KC's pressure by attempting to pass out of it with Hyka and Dawkins tucking in...it just brought more congestion...we needed to stretch them out and quickly get up field....in the short term we're in dire need of someone who can hold the ball up.
     
  14. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After watching NYCFC, RBNY, and ATL games this weekend, I re-watched the Quakes-SKC game today.

    The word to describe the first 3 teams is "Elite", and the Quakes = "Torpid'.

    It feels like the Quakes play at 2/3 the speed of those 3 teams. And I noticed in the SKC game that when one of our players has the ball for a dribble, a DFK or a throw-in, none of the teammates even move. The Quakes only move when they are defending. THey seem to never move into attack.

    And it is really alarming to see Hyka and Lima start to play the same way. I've not noticed this before -- has that been our game plan since 2013, just slow down the game until everyone is asleep?
     
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  15. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    If you think the team's offensive woes are due to Francis being bad at offensive play, you have seriously been missing what's been happening with this team. It is true Shaun Francis is bad in the offensive. Guess what? So is every single other player on the team.
     
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  16. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Blaming our offensive woes on Francis the past three years is like saying our team's respectable GAA durng that time was due to Wondo's stellar defensive performances.
     
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  17. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    If your right tackle cannot block, and your QB is running for his life on every play, the entire 11-man offense is going to look inept.

    We can test out the warring theories on whether Francis is to blame for offensive anemia by simply freeing Kip Colvey.
     
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  18. nihon2000

    nihon2000 Member

    Oct 14, 2008
    San Jose
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll give a football analogy ..
    Wide receiver drops a pass that would give the offense a new set of downs on 3rd down and 10. Even though, this one drop isn't the main reason for an eventual team loss, it doesn't help the offense score points .. so if the receiver continues to stop drives due to dropped passes then he'll be sure to get waived at some point.

    This is Francis when SJE is being high pressed & we're trying to play out of the back instead of clearing the balls forward aimlessly. Except Francis continues to start over Colvey.
     
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  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    And, eventually, when it happens enough, the opposition doubles another receiver while leaving Butterfingers wide open on every play. Even worse, sometimes Butterfingers bobbles the ball in the air and it is intercepted leading to an opponent's offensive possession and occasional touchdown. And yet the coach calls for Butterfingers to be the primary target the few times a throw is attempted instead of a dive play run.

    Dive play, dive play, throw to Butterfingers on third and long. Punt.
     
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  20. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County
    I hate to be the one who points out the elephant in the room but so far were 2-0 verses 10 man teams and 0-1 verses 11 man squads.
     
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  21. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Any chance the league could throw us a bone? SJ plays against 10 men? Just a thought.
     
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  22. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We can make all sorts of cute football analogies. I wouldn't equate Francis to a wide receiver, which are a team's main offensive weapons. If anything, our outside mids are a more accurate comparison. Our star receiver rarely gets open and is easily covered. And another young, talented receiver has never scored a touchdown, (though is a good possesion receiver) At best, Francis is a tight end, mainly on the field to block, though an end who can catch and run with the ball is a huge asset. But, why lament over the fact that our tight end is very limited, when we don't even have a quarterback? And our main running back is now older and slower, and very one dimensional. And our punter lets the ball goes through his fingers allowing the other team to score? And Don, if we are so predicatable, dive play, dive play, (akin to booting a low percentage ball up to Wondo) and then rely on Francis to break free on the right, it is like you said, the coach calling the plays, and so that is our bigger issue.

    I am no fan of Francis, but, to heap so much abuse on him is a bit unfair and misdirected.
     
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  23. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I like Shaun Francis. He's a nice guy. But it's plain that other teams are targeting him as the weak link. The American football analogies were designed to show that in a team game, the whole suffers when one player is playing at a significantly subpar level.

    And I have belatedly come to agree that the coach's inflexibility, reflected in his continuing to play Francis (and having done so at the end of last year when the season was already lost), among other evidence, is the biggest issue with the Quakes right now.
     
  24. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Is it abuse to point out that opposing teams have identified him as the weak link? Watch the games and you'll see that Francis is invited to touch the ball all game long. That is by design, not by accident.

    Many years ago I attended a coaching clinic held by Sigi Schmid when he was coaching UCLA. It was unique course because it was a game day and he was going to show us how he worked out a strategy to beat his opponent (it was Sacramento State that day). He said the most basic strategy that you could employ to beat your opponent was called "find the dork". He said there is always a weaker player that can be exploited and that player is usually on the outside.

    He claimed that when they targeted that player, the opposing players natural reaction would be to "protect" him and that meant they would move out of their positions and leave gaps that could be exploited. He said the overcompensation was what they were looking for and all us coaches got to watch the game after the clinic so we could see it in action.

    I'm seeing the exact same game plan against Francis. I fully expect it to continue as long as he is on the field.
     
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  25. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you look at the Opta stats for the first three games it looks like Lima has probably had more touches, with both roughly having similar successful and unsuccessful passes, touches. Do I think we could use an upgrade at left back? Certainly. But, it is not as bad as many here like to make it out. Our style of play concentrates passes to the outside or low percentage boots up top our forwards. If we had a smart coach we would make an adjustment to play more through the middle
     

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