Spector was not going to be signed by any PL team and immediately handed a spot in the first XI. He's played a handful of games at this level and hasn't even established a position let alone his quality -- he's very much still a prospect in a league that, at the moment, counts players such as Anton Ferdinand, Micah Richards, Curtis Davies, Steven Taylor, and Phillipe Senderos as established center backs who are roughly Spector's age. West Ham has a solid group of starters-- a tough group to crack-- but they'll also compete for a spot in Europe, made the finals of the FA Cup last year, they have a rep for playing young players, they shouldn't be an immediate relegation risk, and, yes, at least by rep West Ham *are* ahead of the others -- they've been considered "the academy of football" for about the past 40 years and in recent years have helped the development of Joe Cole, Frank Lampard, Michael Carrick, both Ferdinands, Nigel Reo-Coker, Jermain Defoe, Glen Johnson. That's a pretty good group. This is an excellent place for a player such as Spector to turn the corner and prove that not only should he compete for a place on the field but can grow into a star, for all the reasons Hammerette mentioned above. You're right, it does depend on how many games he gets, but at this level that depends on how many games he earns and he's in a good spot to do so-- not a team like Man U where a young player is competing not only against the team's current roster but its ability to spend money to fix problems (as Fergie did along the backline last year). For examples of how easy it would be for a player of Spector's current ability (not potential) and experience level to become an automatic starter in England at his position, see...the rest of overseas-based U.S. center backs, two of whom were courted by second- and third-tier PL teams this summer-- Gibbs signed by Charlton where, even before his injury, he wasn't going to automatically start; Onyewu failing to sign at Boro and getting looks at Reading but no offers. Bocanegra is also a part-time starter in this league, at a club like Fulham. These players are clearly ahead of Spector and are in constant battles for spots with English teams hoping to, say, finish in the top half of the table. Spector had an uphill climb no matter where he went and I'm pleased that he went to a club with ambition, the sort of competition that will push him to truly earn his spot, and an exemplary record for turning out rising stars.
the kid will get what he deserves. If he's as talented as we think he is he'll show that he should be playing
I think there are 4-5 Premiership clubs where he would be even closer to the action (if not starting). All lower-table. I do agree that- at the end of the day- a player has to 'prove' himself. But as the illustration of Zak Knight shows us- it sure is great when you have that 'potential starter for the next x years tag'. It allows you to make a few mistakes, and still frequently retain your position (or get countless opportunities to claim). Not every player gets that- but some do. Its a 'benefit of the doubt' thing that does exist quite frequently. Its hard to knock off incumbents if a coach is hell-bent on playing them. Even if you are talented. If you are with distance talented- yes, you will displace. But if its close? Often the manager will go with his favorite. And those are the tough situations. In my mind, its not initially a good sign that the coach would sign Persil so soon after saying he wasn't looking for another right back, and so soon after signing Spector. Sounds like Spector is the 'insurance' play at this time. That's different from " you are here to battle for the job" mentality. As said, it really sucks that Spector won't have a full pre-season to integrate + compare vs. his competition. He's already one foot in the hole for the 1st half of the season. Just like at Charlton.
Terrible post. This is Spector's fourth year in Europe, two at ManU (one with the first team). He has had plenty of "education" with "good coaches" and with "highly motivated" players. Not saying it has not been beneficial, but it can only go so far. At this point in his career, or very, very soon, Spector needs to be playing regularly or there is a high risk that his development will never be what it should be. Playing regularly under pressure of losing your position is what makes Europe a great place for players to maximize their potential -- but it doesn't work that way if you aren't playing. Spector has made a mistake long-term with his career if this poster's predictions regarding his playing time this year with West Ham are accurate. Of course, I don't know what Spector's potential is and it could be that he is a tweener without a true position at the highest levels. But whatever it is, I think he is at the stage in his career where playing is critical to maximizing that potential.
They are not much deeper this year than they were two years ago when he made about as much noise playing for Manchester United as certain folks think he will make this season at WestHam. I believe ManUtd had just as many full internationals in defense at that time as they do now (swap Fortune foe Evra and l'il Neville for Vidic).
Hayden Mullins & Lee Bowyer will battle for that holding role.... Nigel is box-to-box and Spector is unproven (at best) 6months in a dodgy Addicks team means sh*t
That dodgy team was only 8 pts. behind you guys in a 38 game season. What is dodgy + 8 pts considered?
The post might be many things. I doubt that "ironic" is one of them. I don't think that he can get much more out of training with good coaches and other good players and learning by osmosis -- he may be only 21 but he has spent three years in England, two of them at the highest level. He needs, IMHO, to get more on-the-job training as opposed to practice. Of course, this is just an opinion, but I don't think the fact that Spector is not yet 21 rebuts it very well.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=374402&cc=5739 Paintsil a wuss. I'm sure if this were Spector, we'd be hearing about the 'inexperienced, naive young player'
I think we need to consider that in the period May 2004 when he signed pro for Man Utd til May 2006 when he left Charlton, Spector started 2 PL and 2 FA Cup games plus a few appearances as a sub for Man Utd and started 13 PL and 2 FA Cup games for Charlton and around 10 appearances as sub. That is about half a seasons worth of games so in my opinion he is still learning his trade. Spector will know himself that he is not the finished article. Many young players are capable of turning in one off outstanding performances, it's being able to perform at the highest level consistently that is the difficult thing to attain at a young age and few do. I think most of us are basically saying the same thing just wording it differently, Spector needs playing time but he's not ready for week in week out playing time in the PL. I already posted there are not many players as young as Spector who are automatic starters for their clubs in the PL, so he's not failing or made a mistake if he does not become first choice RB at West Ham this season. Note. I just edited my post as I missed out a point I wanted to make.
I don't think its semantics to claim that "not the first choice RB" is a bit different from "slotted as 3rd, 4th respectively in the depth chart from the word go". You can only be so and so impressive in practice. If you are thought of as deep bench, you gotta almost pray for an injury. If you play well, you will hear the cries of "well, that's only one good game". And you won't get that next start, as soon as the 'regular' comes back. Its a long, uphill road over many months to win confidence. And, in fact, its kindof the road Spector has ALREADY been on- until Curbishly started showing a bit more faith in him over Perry in certain situations last year. Let'd be real- at Watford or Reading or Sheff. U or a couple other clubs- he'd be higher in the pecking orde/starting vs. this '3rd or 4th stuff' that it looks like (if the hard-core West Ham fans here have the right beat on it). Sure, there is more risk/much more risk of going down, but you get more games to show your stuff. You are being counted on to keep the team in Premiership, vs. 'wouldn't it be nice if this kid contributed something this year'. If you excel and your club goes down- hell, you can get the kindof gig Spector has this year NEXT YEAR. I certainly hope the manager doesn't rate Spector as low as the hard-core fans here. On that timetable, he would be a consistent starter for West Ham pretty far off in the future, if ever. He can find a better situation than that, for sure. I got a feeling that some Hammer fans based their entire knowledge of Spector on one 30 minutes sub appearance as a left back last year- and that seems like an awful small bit of data to work with.
Actually, if I remember correctly, Heinze was still at the olympics, Rio was suspended, Fortune and Brown were injured, Richardson, Bardsley, and Pique were still with the youth teams. In any case, he did manage to be selected despite his young age and the competition, which speaks to his prodigous talent, but the fact is there is much more competition in that position now then there was then. If his priority is to get playing time rather than to play at the best club, as it should be at this point, then he is much better off at West Ham.
As things stand at the moment Mears and Paintsil are fully fit, taking part in pre season activities with the squad and playing in games whilst Spector is unfortunately sitting at home in America injured so he's behind his fit rivals at the moment. I don't see that as being unreasonable especially as Spector knew he was being signed intitially as a squad player. I've said several times that Spector will be given starting opportunities and it's then up to him to show he's better than any players ahead of him. I'm not writing Spector off on the basis of 30 mins play. I'm neither for nor against him, the best player should start and if that's him fine, if it's Mears or any other player that's fine too as far as I'm concerned.
Do they not also have to prove that they are better than him? If I were in the WestHam backline to start the season I would be seriously looking over my shoulder.
At the moment 3/4 of West Ham's backline don't have to do that because they're firm incumbents. At CB and LB it's up to the challengers (james collins, christian dailly, clive clarke, spector) to prove they belong on the field instead. At right back, it seems wide open but as was just stated Spector is out of preseason camp which, like golazo and others lamented, is a sad repeat of his 2005 preseason camp with Charlton.
Where did it say that? I remember seeing that he would compete for the spot. Is that code for 'you aren't really competing for the spot at this point'?
http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?...id=21&lid=2&title=Hammers+happy+with+Painstil Sounds like the Paintstil deal is not a 'done deal'. Pardew left some room for interpretation with his comments. I think it makes a good difference to John though, and how much playing time he may get.
http://www.whufc.com/news/?page_id=8111 When Mears was signed, Pardew said "we aren't looking for another right back". And then he turns around, and trials Paintsil less than a week later. WTF? If they sign Paintsil, looks like Spector is in a FOUR way battle for the position. That's a lot of bodies. Interestingly in the Mears article, he states that Mears would have to fight it out for Spector and Dailly for the position, but that he would have a chance 'to make thoe position all his own'. Did he say the same thing to Spector, I wonder? Hopefully Pardew is indeed a clean slate on this, and is giving all equal opportunity (although having said, if Spector isn't really available until Sept- he's automatically in that hole)
I wonder what, if any implications, this has on Spector. Painstil is kinda in the same boat of Jon, in that they can play all across the backline. Is Pardew looking for hybid defenders that can plug into any system, building depth, or a combo of the two? Because he's hurt, I have a sense of uncertainty, not that he won't play, that he may play out of position. I just hope he gets back ASAP.
He really looked more comfortable at right back rather than left back at Charlton. At LB he tended to just go for clears whereas at RB he tried actually distribute the ball upfield to a midder, who of course would quickly lose the ball but that's a different matter.
Where's the faith? Spector's a good player. West Ham bought him because they think he's good and will get even better. Probably sounds strange from me and I can respect having loads of perspective. But I'd hope that Spector has it in him to prove that he knows what it takes to help West Ham get to the next level, and that he's a clear cut above whoever was slated to start for West Ham. I don't know... I think it's time to start expecting more from the younger players- guys that will step up and be the very best in what they do - which means beating out players that are already 'good'. Maybe Spector isn't good enoug hfor it, but at least hope that he is.
Well I have to say Paintsil or whatever his name is played very well in Sweden so not surprised he's signed. I don't really want to go over old ground as I think this thread has run it's course but I think I may not have made myself as clear I could have. I'm not suggesting that it is only Spector who has to show his worth at all but it has to be kept in mind that due to his injury it is inevitable that there will be players ahead of him. It's not Spector's fault he's injured but it has set him back for the beginning of the season. I wouldn't take much notice of what any manager says in public about transfer dealings, most of it is BS. It's what the managers say to the player in private that matters. Pardew wouldn't have signed Spector if he didn't rate him, and don't forget that Pardew is a Charlton old boy and very matey with their coach Keith Peacock who has just joined us in fact. Peacock would have given Pardew a full account of Spector's performances for them and also his attributes as a player and person so I'm quite sure Spector is well regarded.