South American Player of the Year

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Breitner'sWig, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Since 1970 is easier to rank top players. In this period in only disagree with two years:

    * 1985, i give him to Maradona. He has a slight better league performance vs Junior (see ratings).
    But a better impact in NT (he played 4 friendlies with 0,75 gpg and 6 games in WCQ with 0,66 gpg). He was the best argentine player in the qualifiers, excluding both matches against Peru :p
    Junior, played 1 friendly and 4 games in WCQ. In all those matches he played as LB (even he wasn't defender anymore at club level).

    * 1989 or 1990. Maradona had becoming more and more irregular in Serie-A due to his problems. He didn't played at #1 star level in the NT neither.
    So, i think that for 1989, one of the CA champions would be a good case (Bebeto or Romario)
    For 1990, it would be a hard competition (not so great for top players). Maybe another argentine or brazilian or colombian (i'm not considering SAPotY winner)
     
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  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If 89 does not go to Maradona, it should be Bebeto, with a great performance at the Copa America, winning Golden Ball, and also Brazil's best player at the WCQ. I remember his wonderful dribbling run to set up Careca for the crucial goal against Chile in Rio (before the Rojas feigned injury happened).

    For 90 it has to be Maradona, leading Napoli to its second Scudetto and of course Argentina to the WC final.
     
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  3. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I think you are spot on (the difference sources of rating)

    There are 2,3 different rating sources for Italy (dBcalcio, El Calcio and Guerin Sportivo)

    Also in SA (related to here) different sources with different ratings: Placar (Brazil SCORE), Elmundo (Venezuala) and El Pais (Uruguay) ..

    so up to YOUR CHOICES! We can NOT just base on ONE source and claim it's true!
     
  4. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    I agree with what you say. But I dont know. Though perhaps not as brilliant as before, in 1989 Maradona was still a standout of no other than Serie A, of all leagues, and won with Napoli their only continental level trophy.
     
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  5. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, agree. Wasn't saying that Maradona should not get it, but the strongest alternative that year would have been the baby-faced Bebeto.
     
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  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What are his best years in Italy do you think, individual level?

    Excluding 1984 (because only active in Italy between september-december), I think it is 1985, 1986 and 1988.
     
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  7. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    That explains a lot then, of why I had some difficulty grasping your decisions. But I have a question: Mostly every game of that period did not surface, only highlights. On top of that, what RAI used to do was pick 1 game for television viewers outside of Turin and broadcast many times only one half, which was the most interesting in their view. So we used to be deprived of seeing the entire game. Even the Spanish network in the States once in a while used to show European football, but here again they would many times only narrow it to one half or a 30 minute highlight.

    Torino was not a team that was given major coverage, so it remains an enigma of how you could assess that entire campaign of Junior based on video footage. (Unless of course, you were based in Turin). You clarified that you witnessed one game against AC Milan, which persuaded your decision, but apart from that one match, was there any others you witnessed?

    Considering highlights cover offensive actions, and being that Junior was used more in a defensive role (according to you), how was it possible that you could have studied his game given that defensive players were not video-followed in the same manner as offensive players?

    The fact that some newspaper sources rated him high, is primarily the main indication of his performances in that season, because full match videos are scarce.

    P.D.: Enjoy your youth because it flies by quickly.
     
  8. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    shots fired!!
     
  9. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    How did you find out what RAI did with their footage?

    He said he traded video footage with people over the internet, maybe some were from Turin? Or is that not feasible
     
  10. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    To resolve this?
    Maradona could have won best player for his "CLASS" in 89
    Bebeto could be the best for his "FORM" in 89
     
  11. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    It's possible that someone based in Turin could have recorded games back in the day, but the chances of it surviving all these years depends on how well it was preserved. I used to record games in the '80s and many got destroyed over time or were unfortunately recorded over for different purposes of use. However, chances that you find such a person around that may have material from that era are slim. Besides, you would need to have something in return that may interest the other side in order to swap. Another way is to have contacts that work within the local Turin TV companies which have access to the archives (assuming anything survived) but it is improbable you will get to know anyone that's inside. You may need to pay lots of money as well to obtain just one game.

    He himself alluded to one game he saw, which was Torino-AC Milan, but very little else appears to have surfaced.
     
  12. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    MARADONA'S RATINGS

    DBS Calcio:
    1988/89 - 6,60 (25)
    1989/90 - 6,46 (27)
    1990/91 - 6,00 (18)

    Guerin Sportivo:
    1988/89 - final ??
    1989/90 - 6,32; 6,42 (La Republicca)
    1990/91 - final ??
     
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  13. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    R.SOSA
    1988/89 - 6,30 (33)
    1989/90 - 6,17 (27)

    CARECA
    1988/89 - 6,55 (29)
    1989/90 - 6,24 (21)

    DUNGA
    1988/89 - 6,75 (30)
    1989/90 - 6,05 (28)
    1990/91 - 6,13 (31)

    ALEMAO
    1988/89 - 6,38 (16)
    1989/90 - 6,54 (27)
    1990/91 - 6,22 (20)

    CANIGGIA
    1989/90 - 6,07 (31)
    1990/91 - 6,41 (22)

    Source: DBS Calcio
     
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  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    ROMARIO
    BEBETO
    1989 - SAPotY 1st place; 3rd world best in WS
    http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bebeto
     
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  15. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    He claims to write professionally for a sports magazine, so it shouldn't be too hard in this day for him to find someone in Italy with access to the archives willing to send those files/tapes over, particularly if getting paid for it. I don't see how it's so unfeasible to you with the Internet and video conversion technology so cheap.
     
  16. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Many people can write for any publication, but that doesn't mean they will have access abroad to the archives in TV studios. You have to have the connections and means that will open doors so you can get access. I myself know some people inside some TV studios in Europe, but that doesn't guarantee anything, because many times the film wasn't saved and it's not in the archives. The fact that he mentioned one game only, leads me to believe that he was not successful.
     
  17. stevenf76

    stevenf76 New Member

    marseille
    France
    Jan 12, 2018
    Where can i find the awards from El grafico ?
     
  18. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Can you update the Pele's career?
     
  19. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    As the best South American player by seasons (Top 3):

    1957: -
    1958: 2nd (behind Didi)
    1959: 1st
    1960: 2nd (behind Omar Sívori)
    1961: 1st
    1962: 1st (even ahead of World Cup's star Garrincha)
    1963: 1st
    1964: 1st
    1965: 1st
    1966: -
    1967: -
    1968: 1st (not clearly because Gérson, Jairzinho and Tostao)
    1969: 2nd (behind Tostao)
    1970: 3rd (behind Jairzinho and Tostao)
    1971: -
    1972: -
    1973: -
    1974: -
    1975: -
    1976: -
    1977: -
     
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  20. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Hey Perú Fc, could you post a list with a top10 or top 5 for each year?
    Or if you don't want to post it here, could you send it to me?
     
  21. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Do you mean South American tops?

    I'm in the process of assessing them by seasons, but I haven't ordered them so punctually yet. According to the global lists that I'm doing for now:

    1995

    1) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina [ITA])
    2) FRANCESCOLI, Enzo (Uruguay & River Plate [ARG])
    3) RONALDO (Brazil & PSV Eindhoven [NED])
    4) ZAMORANO, Iván (Chile & Real Madrid [SPA])
    5) TÚLIO (Brazil & Botafogo [BRA])

    1996

    1) CHILAVERT, José Luis (Paraguay & Vélez Sarsfield [ARG])
    2) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina [ITA])
    3) ORTEGA, Ariel (Argentina & River Plate [ARG])
    4) FRANCESCOLI, Enzo (Uruguay & River Plate [ARG])
    5) SIMEONE, Diego (Argentina & Atlético de Madrid [SPA])

    [*] Ronaldo spent much of the 1995-96 season injured.

    1997

    1) RONALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    2) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & Flamengo [BRA])
    3) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    4) RIVALDO (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña [SPA])
    5) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid [SPA])

    [*] Juninho Paulista, Edmundo and Marcelo Salas very close.

    Then I could to extracting the results until 2009.

    Those from years before 1995 I think I'll try to do more in the future.
     
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  22. ManiacButcher

    ManiacButcher Member

    Palmeiras
    Argentina
    May 23, 2004
    Brasil
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yes, South american tops. Something similar to Tom Stevens' "Historic World Wide Balon d'Or 23 player short lists", but with only South american players.

    I know that I could just see the South american names on his lists, but I like to cross-reference different opinions to build a better notion of some players.
     
  23. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    1998

    1)
    RONALDO (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    2) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    3) BATISTUTA, Gabiel (Argentina & Fiorentina [ITA])
    4) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid [SPA])
    5) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])

    [*] Cafu, Marcelo Salas and José Luis Chilavert very close.

    1999

    1)
    RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    2) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina [ITA])
    3) VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Parma [ITA])
    4) AMOROSO, Márcio (Brazil & Udinese [ITA])
    5) CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Parma [ITA])

    [*] Matías Almeyda and Claudio López very close.

    2000

    1)
    VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Lazio [ITA])
    2) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid [SPA])
    3) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    4) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina [ITA])
    5) CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Parma [ITA])

    [*] Roberto Carlos, Émerson, Romário, Mário Jardel and Javier Saviola very close.

    2001

    1)
    RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    2) CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Lazio [ITA])
    3) RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Boca Juniors [ARG])
    4) AYALA, Roberto (Argentina & Valencia [SPA])
    5) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])

    [*] Cafu, Gabriel Batistuta, Romário, Javier Saviola and Óscar Córdoba very close.

    2002

    1)
    ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid [SPA])
    2) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona [SPA])
    3) RONALDO (Brazil & Inter Milan [ITA])
    4) CAFU (Brazil & AS Roma [ITA])
    5) LÚCIO (Brazil & Bayer Leverkusen [GER])

    [*] Pablo Aimar, Ronaldinho, Roberto Ayala, Walter Samuel and Javier Zanetti very close.
     
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  24. Louis Soccer

    Louis Soccer Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Apr 17, 2017
    France Football has recognized Pelé, 7 Golden Ball.
    1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1968 and 1970.
    https://laopinion.com/2016/01/12/pele-habria-ganado-7-balones-de-oro/
    In 1958 by Kopa, in 1959 by Di Stefano, in 1960 by Suarez, in 1961 by Sivori, in 1963 by Yashin, in 1964 by Law and in 1970 by Muller.

    I think it must have been 8, the 1962 season was decisive to win the Copa Libertadores and the Intercontinental Cup. In the World Cup it was better than Garrincha while he played.
    I
     
  25. Louis Soccer

    Louis Soccer Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Apr 17, 2017
    Ronaldo Nazario was unquestionably the best player of the year 2002.

    FIFA Player on the Year 2002: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Khan, 3. Zidane
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIFA_World_Player_of_the_Year

    Golden Ball 2002 (France Football): 1. Ronaldo, 2. Roberto Carlos, 3. Khan
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy02.html

    Onze d'Or: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Zidane, 3. Ronaldinho
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onze_d'Or

    World Soccer Player on The Year 2002: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Ballack, 3. Roberto Carlos: http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/wsoc02.html

    Golden Ball FIFA World Cup 2002: 1. Khan, 2. Ronaldo, 3. Hong Myung
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-gb02.html

    TOP-5 of South American players recognized in Europe in 2002: 1.Ronaldo, 2. Roberto Carlos, 3. Rivaldo, 4.Ronaldinho, 5.Cafu. In Conmebol, the player of the year was José Saturnino Cardozo. No question, Ronaldo was the best.
     

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