Some OLD World Cup trivia

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by schwuppe, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I started to search old Austrian newspaper archives ('Arbeiter-Zeitung') for some informations about past World Cups.

    I will try to translate parts that might be worth sharing.

    Ernst Ocwirk was asked before the game against Germany in '54 about his World XI (30.6.54)

    That's what Obdulio Varela had to say before the World Cup Final 1950 (16.7.50)

    In 1950 after the final there was again a small part about a World XI (18.7.50)

    Sport-Tageblatt article the day after the 'Wunderteam' was eliminated against Italy. (4.6.34)
    It's a whole page, shortened it.


    More about Eklund after the final (12.6.34)

    That's it for today.
    More will follow, maybe about the Mitropa Cup.
     
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  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It's labelled as a World XI so perhaps it is not strictly based on the World Cup, but still interesting to note that the Brazilians Ademir and Zizinho who along with Jair starred in their prolific run to the Final are missing as well as all but Varela from Uruguay. In some ways it seems like that side might be more expected for a pre-tournament world XI, but the date definately confirms it was picked after the tournament.

    On the Austria 1934 comments, it's interesting that they had the eventual most prolific scorer of all time (already scoring a lot but not many in that World Cup) Josef Bican who was also noted for his speed. I had also previously read that the Italians were favoured for physical qualities over Austria in general though.
     
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  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Strange to see Baltazar appearing. He only played two matches or so in that world cup.
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I don't know much about him other than that he was one of the new generation, like Julinho, brought in after the 1950 World Cup along with the yellow shirts.

    Ocwirk could've included another Hungarian in his place; either Hidegkuti as the deep-lying centre-forward or Kocsis at centre-forward (even though he was officially the inside-right for Hungary).

    As it was picked before the Austria-Germany game perhaps after the remaining two games the old-timer Fritz Walter would've been considered as a playmaking inside-forward. EDIT - Ocwirk's team is clearly labelled as best in the world and includes Kubala who was not in the World Cup so maybe he was not massively influenced by the World Cup - I'm not sure when else he'd have come across Baltazar though.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Of that period, I've difficulties in remembering names. Sometimes I read a name again and I have to think again "who was he?". I think because I have no moving pictures of those names in mind.

    Anyway, a particular name that did go through my mind was all-time Yugoslavian legend Bobek. He is missing, just as that left-winger (forgot his name, he had number 9). I see that Mitic is included though.

    Very hard to judge players of that era because all-star XI's of that time contradict each other. Even stars as Zizinho aren't always included I think. Of course, you also have players like Puskas who are included in every team but those are a few, maybe four or five names or so. Is my feeling. For example: I always thought that Varela of Uruguay was a legend but I saw recently an old Dutch publication and that respected journalist did not include him :eek:
     
  6. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah the footage is minimal and/or not very clear and sometimes the time and motivation to research many players is lacking. It can be worth it though eg Faas Wilkes ;), or a more recent (played in a later era) player I researched as he was Bosnian Golden Player, Safet Susic.

    More so than now, the exposure to players from different parts of the world would vary I think with World Cups probably more crucial for this (for fans and fellow players) even if the competition was not necessarily held in the regard of more recent times and there was the Olympics too plus more prestigious friendlies. I suppose it could be expected that might mean several names would be in World XI's by default but in reality it probably explains why only someone like Puskas would be. Plus, there were possibly many closely matched players.

    Skoblar is another Yugoslav but maybe not the one you were thinking of - I did see a few of his goals on Youtube not long ago.
     
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  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    No I meant Bernard Vukas. Remembered the name suddenly. And he wasn't a left-winger but did play there (like Wilkes wasn't a right-winger but also played there at times ;) ).
     
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, also one of the most highly-rated players in the 50's it seems.
     
  9. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Read the quote again.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I did.

    It is still strange.
     
  11. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    No, why? Ocwirk was asked to 'make the best team in the world' and not 'make a World Cup '54 XI'.


    If someone names Zidane in his best team in the world in 2002 would you say 'that's strange he just played one game'?
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    If I had not known that he was injured, yes.
     
  13. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Look, you're about 30 years too late to recieve an answer why Ocwirk thought highly of Baltazar. ;)
     
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  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Maybe someone knows why he played not in all games?

    Another thing, you are an Austrian, I heard some stories about Ocwirk, is there a way to watch footage of him? Footage of Austria in 1954WC is very scarce and I've not seen a full match coming along.
     
  15. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    15 min of Switzerland - Austria is the most I've seen.
     
  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Barbosa was a very highly rated GK, some contemporaries rated him as the best brazilian keeper ever (probably in skillset and higher peak). But the maracanazo makes him sadly ignored and underrated player.

    Baltazar was also a great player (i don't know if merits a world class) and the starter on WC'1950. Surely Ocwirk had impressed w/both brazilian in some touring at South America. BTW, at that time Brazil had a bunch of great CFs, too.

    The big surprised to me, is chilean Fernando Roldan who hadn't the recognition of other contemporaries defenders, just in Chile (Alvarez, Busquets & Almeyda had more famous)

    It also surprisingly that Horvat & Mitic made the best XI, i thought that they played better in the next WC.

    BTW, the correct order of the five front-line forward would be: Basora(OR), Mitic(IR), Zarra(CF), Jair(IL), Finney(OL)
     
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  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    When did Ocwirk make a tour to Brazil? A quick look says that the first international game of Austria against Brazil was in 1956.
     
  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Not Austria NT, just his club mate!!
     
  19. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
     
  20. RoyOfTheRovers

    Jul 24, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    [Or you could just ask a certain oldster who was fortunate enough to see Ocwirk from the terraces more than once...]
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Austria were still playing quite an old-fashioned (pre-WM) formation weren't they with Ocwirk as centre-half or did he play as a left-half sometimes/through the World Cup? Happel was a more defensive player who could play centre-half I suppose in the WM but could've been an old-fashioned 'full-back' too.

    From what I've seen of Walter he was a very good passer, accurately playing the ball through to his team-mates (I know through his career he was also a prolific scorer though).

    'Clockwork' was an apt nickname for Ocwirk I believe, as well as rhyming, because he was a good distributor of the ball from deep? Have you any particular memories of him or any of his team-mates? I don't know how much you saw of Masopust from Czechoslovakia (played in the '58 and '62 World Cups plus European games for Dukla Prague) but I wonder if Ocwirk was a very similar player to him (maybe Ocwirk wasn't as keen on dribbling the ball)?
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Good question about Masopust.

    I also wonder how he compares with Luis Suarez of Spain.
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks, and yeah Suarez probably had a lot of similar qualities. He seems to have started as inside forward but 'orthodox' as per Roy's descriptions (in the France v Spain '59 game babaorum posted he was operating mainly from behind Di Stefano and Kubala so like an AM nowadays). Particulalrly at Inter when he played deeper than Sandro Mazzola he probably did play a similar role to Masopust (left-half/central midfielder but maybe initially/occasionally inside-left??) and Ocwirk (old fashioned centre-half or left-half it seems mainly).

    Maybe, though formations are very different, Andrea Pirlo is a modern day example of a 'clockwork' midfielder/deep-lying playmaker that could fulfill a vaguely similar role to Ocwirk?
     

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