Soccer metrics to evaluate players

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by mjlee22, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe the Ultras could come up with a song for him.

    "He only runs when he needs to,
    he only run when he needs to....."
     
    DotMPP and Skillachii repped this.
  2. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me Me Me!

    Hey he had one really good 1H. It may have been fueled by the fact that he appeared to have family or friends sitting below us in the moat for the POR game. We probably won’t see enough of him this season to really judge. So I reserve the right to remain skeptical until next season!
     
  3. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    One good half? Umm he has 4g, 2a in 600 min, which would put him like 5th in the league in terms of productivity. I don't think he scored 4g and 2a in "one good half".
     
    Skillachii and don gagliardi repped this.
  4. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Skeptical that Vako is Asian? :)
     
  5. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, very.
     
  6. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    That would be "Vako-san" to you.
     
  7. Skillachii

    Skillachii Member

    Chelsea
    Aug 23, 2017
    To my eyes he's done well in every game, progressively getting better. Way he plays is typical for Georgian attackers. Every kid growing up in the 90s wanted to be this guy


    so that's who they take after. If you pay attention to the style you'll recognize the similarities although Vako doesn't have nearly enough skill to compare.

    They don't help defense because they want to save energy for the attacks. That's they way they've been taught.

    Also pretty sure he'll be called for the internationals soon. All other players on his position are injured.
     
  8. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    LOL. :)
     
  9. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When I say “having a good half”, I mean being exciting to watch for a whole half, not for a few touches in it. Being a player that worries defenders.

    Up until the POR game he has mostly been a lone wolf trying to take guys on and getting dispossessed a lot. And had not tried very hard. That’s why I’m so skeptical. I’m not influenced by the stats, I’m watching the games.

    Look, here’s a good example: Hyka vs Vako. Why did Hyka become a crowd favorite so quickly? Maybe becuz he didn’t start off the way Vako has.
     
  10. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    When a guy is one of the say 5 most productive players in the league, you should take note of the stats. That is a difference maker who helps your team win. As I said after seeing him play once or twice, he was going to be productive in MLS, and his work rate will frustrate at times.

    And yet he is a little deceptive or economical with his work rate. I thought he wasn't bothering to play much defense against Portland and I looked and saw that he had 15 recoveries, and a couple of tackles and interceptions. 15 recoveries in particular is a lot. You don't see numbers that high very often. He is just not a guy who's going to run around like a chicken with his head cut off - the anti-Salinas if you will.

    As for the "lone wolf" thing, I'd be willing to bet that the coaching staff is asking him to take people on because he is good at it - crafty dribbler and difficult to knock off the ball. It is the same role that Dawkins played in 2012. People freak out when he loses the ball but the thing is, those are somewhat high risk high reward plays. If he gets by a couple of guys around the goal and unleashes that shot of his it's a great chance. That is high risk high reward. He makes the Quakes a better team by doing that. I'd rather see him do that than to see Wondo, Urena and Hoesen with their clever little flicks and dummies in a crowded box that never work.

    Guys like Hyka and Salinas are going to be crowd favorites because they run around a lot but Vako will be a crowd favorite also because scores a lot.
     
    markmcf8, Skillachii, SeaJayBee and 3 others repped this.
  11. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    mlssoccer has a page with "top statistical performers" from around the league. FWIW, Vako had the most "successful dribbles", by a pretty wide margin. "A successful dribble means the player beats the defender while retaining possession." So, as I said, he's good at it, we should be wanting him to try it, and live with the fact that it's not going to work every time.

    Dribbles completed

    This is an attempt by a player to beat an opponent in possession of the ball. A successful dribble means the player beats the defender while retaining possession.

    Week 30 Ranking Player (Club) Dribbles completed
    1 Vako (SJ) 9
    2 Yangel Herrera (NYC) 6
    T-3 7 players tied 5
     
    SeaJayBee, NedZ, xbhaskarx and 1 other person repped this.
  12. SalinasQuakesFan

    Mar 27, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Maybe because he has been with the team longer?
     
  13. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Impressive. "Kinky" actually reminds me of George Best. I would say that Vako's footwork is not as clever as Kinky's was, but he (Vako) is stronger and tries to bull his way thru a little more rather than juke a guys out of his shoes. Vako is very direct and his moves are more subtle. He is not as quick so he leverages his strength and low center of gravity more.
     
  14. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I meant he became a crowd favorite within a few games... or less. But i think it was jazzy said players like Hyka and Shea become fan favs because they run a lot.

    But I think Huckerby is another example of a guy who quickly became a fan fav. I guess It occurs based on how often a player veers between exciting play vs frustrating play.
     
  15. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    I think another factor besides the lack of "manic running" is that Vako is a bit subdued with his emotions. His goal celebrations consist of a little smile, a slow jog, and some pointing at his name on the back of his jersey with his thumbs. That's it. Back to work...
     
  17. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He is saving his energy for when he really needs to run.
     
    mjlee22 repped this.
  18. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #418 JazzyJ, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
    Exactly, you run when someone is chasing you. Otherwise why bother?
     
  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I noticed during the Quakes' Axis video from the Portland game featuring the cute-kid-honorary-captain that virtually every Quakes player seen in the video warmly dotes on the kid. For instance, you see a pretty soft side of Muma you don't see on the pitch. But Vako maintained his same sphinx-like demeanor. I think what you see is what you get.
     
  20. Skillachii

    Skillachii Member

    Chelsea
    Aug 23, 2017
    #420 Skillachii, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
    "Soft side? What soft side?!" - Vako probably. He's a stoic character, no surprise there.


    oh yea, but I wasn't comparing their dribbling abilities per se instead the mentality of being 100% attack oriented. Relentlessly pushing forward even when the odds look impossible. Most people today just seem to pass it to the side endlessly until an opportunity falls from the sky. Players such as these like to force and create things. Similar to the fantasistas of old. Also there are couple of tricks that Vako uses which are directly from Kinky's repertoire even if he executes it a bit differently.
     
  21. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #421 JazzyJ, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
    That sort of attack mentality is really really needed on the Quakes. We do a lot of "endless passes to the side" and then eventually a clever flick or dummy in traffic that never works. Thing is, when you've the ball in a crowded box you have to have some idea how to score. The Quakes don't have the personnel to go airborne with it and they don't have the precision skill and movement to generate a chance with a great little move and pass. The direct 1v1 / 1v2 attack on the ground is one solution, and it's working pretty well with Vako so far. There's the work rate question, and OK he's not going to be kissing babies, but in general I think Jesse got this one right.
     
    don gagliardi repped this.
  22. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Back in the day it was called, "putting your game face on".
     
  23. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A soccer fanatic in Japan maintains this website. They got a tour of the J-League's stats center. I don't know how much this trails or leads euro and american efforts, but I presume the j-league is ahead of most countries in Asia

     
  24. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  25. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

Share This Page