So.. Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Austin Aztex' started by KillerMoth, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. Barrovianhordes

    Jul 5, 2008
    LEANDER TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Amen.

    Tie in with the Cuatro's
    Austin Gooners
    Austin Chelsea groups
    & Fado's Celtic & Man Utd fans, & other EPL, La Liga, a n others etc.
     
  2. KillerMoth

    KillerMoth Member

    May 12, 2008
    South Austin
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    I love the logo. How about red and black stripes?:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Barrovianhordes

    Jul 5, 2008
    LEANDER TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    Bloody great idea that.;) & they have a club house and play on grass:)
     
  4. KillerMoth

    KillerMoth Member

    May 12, 2008
    South Austin
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
  5. tallpauluk/usa

    tallpauluk/usa New Member

    Aug 19, 2010
    Austin TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    there is a guy writing on this form called stephen hiesler but not sure what part it is but i think he laid out how it works and cost
     
  6. KillerMoth

    KillerMoth Member

    May 12, 2008
    South Austin
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    I'm going to contact him for more details.

    In that post, he's saying that Regals FC's expenses will be $70k per season. If that is accurate, and if it would hold true for an Austin team, as well, 241 people putting forward $290 (the cost of the Aztex Alliance membership) would be able to cover that - and their costs might be (at least partially) recouped by ticket sales, concessions, and advertising.

    I am willing to put significantly more into this than $290, if we can really make a go of it. (I'm hoping some other people would, as well.)
     
  7. Danilo-11

    Danilo-11 Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    Venezuela
    If you are going to have a team like this, make sure that you check with other European soccer teams with the same model to make sure that you start on the right foot.

    The only thing that I know about it, is that they work as a employee-owned company in which the employees (fans in this case) are stock-owners of the team. And every so often they hold elections to elect the leaders/officials of the team
    (somebody has to be in charge)

    Something you guys could do, is just to start with an existing Austin team of some level (I don't know if there's any) Apply that model and make it profitable.
    If you start low, and prove yourself to the public that your "democratically owned soccer team" works, I bet people will flock to your organization.

    I believe the most important thing is to set the laws/rules of your organization from the start. To make sure that nobody is going to jump in and completely take over it.
     
  8. KillerMoth

    KillerMoth Member

    May 12, 2008
    South Austin
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    I agree.

    Do you know the names of some of these teams?
     
  9. JustinR1015

    JustinR1015 Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hi all, I've updated the (club financial) spreadsheet per everyone's comments. I love the feedback from everyone! I may not have quoted everyone from above, but I did read them all (several times, in fact).

    I also really like the idea of truly publicly owned, non-profit soccer club. If you check the wikipedia article for the Green Bay Packers, you see they use this type of model. I do not know as much about it, but I also know that in the Bundesliga (top tier league in Germany), the German Football Association requires that all clubs be majority owned by the fans. What a great way to keep your team in town!

    I am most definitely not a lawyer, but I could imagine an entity being formed, and an initial stock offering being made. People could buy in to not only support the club, but to help in its direction. After all, you'd be a part-owner. How's that for distance between season ticket holder and team owner?

    Again, the spreadsheet in question: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...1ZBNkQ1VEdoQmZNSkh6Z2c&hl=en&authkey=CPG3lvEF

    Agreed on the 40-game season. That's just the way the SPSL is suggested as being setup. I liked the idea of saving on hotels. I also liked the idea of joining forces with another local sporting club. I updated the spreadsheet.

    Great! That's even cheaper. Updated.

    Matt, love to see you in on the discussion. I agree that player relocation would be a consideration, just not sure it's feasible at first. Someone else suggested using the local talent pool, and I think that's a great way to start. We might not be the most competitive at first, but that's ok. We've been there before.

    Might you also give us an idea of the number of members in CA? It might help us gauge the number of potential stakeholders.

    Good find. Used some of the ideas to update the sheet.
     
  10. JustinR1015

    JustinR1015 Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Other bits of information we don't have, and could use more insight on are below. When replying, links to credible resources are best. If you have experience running a club, or had insight into a club running at this level, that's good too. Pure, unfounded speculation is not as good. The questions as I see them:

    What is the average attendance in SPSL?

    Can you realistically expect players to play for free? with their own insurance?

    How little can you get away with paying the coach?

    Is there really a shot at any kind of advertising/sponsorship revenue?

    Could we find free legal services? accounting? (I think there was at least one lawyer in the Aztex Alliance - who knows what branch of law...?)

    Could we really muster the volunteer labor to fulfill club staff needs (marketing, logistics, game day ops, front office paperwork)?
     
  11. bullsear

    bullsear Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    If you guys are truly dedicated, if you're interested in D4 and not D3, and if you have the fanbase to support it (which it sounds like you do), I say forget finding investors altogether--at least in the traditional sense.

    Brian Quarsted, who I'm sure you're all familiar with, did a great series on the costs of running a D4 club, and when I did some searching, it's really quite affordable.

    So get your people together, figure out what it might cost, work out some bilaws, and form a supporter's trust. If you could sell 1,000 shares in the team, you could make a go of it with the help of some sponsorship. Hell, maybe you could even get Phil to sell (or better, give) you the name Aztex as a gesture of good will. NPSL or PDL could be doable with a year or two of prep time.
     
  12. LeeKyoto

    LeeKyoto New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    I fully support this idea of a co-op with elected leaders.

    I know that myself and lots of others are left with a hole to fill that we can't just expect to happen by itself in some distant future.

    We should start a poll at some point to see how many people would be willing to lend what level of support.
     
  13. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Not to be a naysayer, but ...

    While I like the idea of community ownership, I wonder whether the model being discussed is likely to put a product on the field that fans want to see. Aside from their terrible management of the departure (and an unwillingness to spend on radio and TV advertising), I think that the Aztex model was essentially a good one. Professional players with aspirations to play at higher levels, an experienced coach, and an owner committed to finding and developing good players -- all that makes for motivated, committed players and a great product that people will come out to see. More marketing and a more professional approach to the off-the-field side of the operation would have kept the Aztex moving toward a sustainable model with a better place to play/beer sales. But that's sustainable only after you write off the up front losses, which would be pretty sizeable. Which means a very wealthy fan of soccer and Austin probably needs to be part of the equation.

    What's being discussed here might be fun for committed amateur players and even good for their development (assuming it's their only option -- i.e., they won't travel to play). But for building a fan base it doesn't sound like a formula for success to me.

    Maybe I'm wrong about this. If something got going, I'd certainly chip in some $. But it doesn't sound like a roadmap to the kind of team/club I was hoping to see here.
     
  14. JustinR1015

    JustinR1015 Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its true. This is not a team model that would see many players move on to MLS or the like (though players from the NPSL have made it to MLS). Best case, this type of organization might evolve the capital to compete at a higher level, but this is truly building from the ground up. I don't necessarily think it would have a huge appeal from a soccer standpoint, at least at the beginning. I do think there would be a lot of interest from a community standpoint. People should get excited about a community owned soccer club.

    The approach with the SPSL would be to have the barrier to entry be low enough that a committed group of people (none of which are extremely wealthy), could buy in and get the club started. The franchise fee for PDL has been mentioned as $75,000. Division 2 requires a $20M owner. I don't think there are enough supporters to each contribute less than $1,000 (many contributing much less, as $1,000 is a lot of money) to support a club where the season's expenditures are $150k or more (PDL), or $500k or more (Div 2).

    The problem with a single wealthy business owner running the club, is that that person can unilaterally decide to move the club.

    With the SPSL model, imagine a full season's costs estimated at $100k (looks to be quite a high estimate). With $100 shares, you need 1,000 shares sold to fully fund your first year before any money has come in the door. Those same shareholders own the team, and control where it goes and what it does. Worst case, either the costs were underestimated, or the revenues were overestimated, and the club folds during the season. If you broke even, you have the knowledge and the funds to start for next year. If you made money, you have the opportunity to grow the club and improve it for years to come. If you make it to the second year, there isn't any reason you can't offer additional shares for sale to raise more capital. Worst case, its a failed grand experiment with risk dispersed over many stakeholders and no one individual is extremely pressured by the financial situation.
     
  15. JustinR1015

    JustinR1015 Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    There used to be (maybe still are) some successful minor league baseball clubs who were community owned. But they depended upon affiliations with major league teams to staff them with players.

    Can someone explain the differences between these different lower level soccer league orgs referred to in the link?
     
  17. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Really nice job on the spreadsheet...

    You raise some excellent points. People are not going to show up just for the soccer. Family, friends, girlfriends, wives may show up, but what is going to motivate someone from the community to buy a ticket? The big problem with most PDL teams is that they play in high school stadiums and cannot serve beer. Don't get me wrong beer is not the answer (it helps), but it sure gets people out to low level minor league baseball games. The social element (including beer) cannot be under estimated.

    That is why I would team up with the Huns rugby. The first few years bring in some portable bleachers -- http://www.bleachersonthemove.com/ and port-a-loos. At one end of the field set up some tents for a beer garden (obviously get a license to dispense alcohol). I may be oversimplifying things, but sometimes it does not have to be too sophisticated.

    It is also important to have players who want to get involved in the community. The vast majority of PDL players just want an opportunity to play soccer for a couple months before going back to school. Understandably, they have very little interest in community activities, etc. Plus there is so much turnover from year-to-year, with new faces every year making it hard for fans to establish a connection with the players/team.

    One last thing and then I'll shut up, a community run team has some distinct advantages compared to a single owner. Grass roots networking. The ability to utilize talents/skills of the members of the club (e.g. someone may have experience with accounting and want to donate their time, someone may want to volunteer to set up the website). I also think that business will gravitate to a community run team and want to be part of something that is beneficial to the community.

    FC United of Manchester could be a good model to look at:

    http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/
    http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/story.php?story_id=3108 -- Community Shares Drive

    There is no doubt that it would be a massive undertaking, but anything can be done. I think the big thing like others have said is to start small and take baby steps. The worst thing that can happen is that it never takes off or is a huge failure. At least no single person is going to lose a ton of cash. Maybe a lot of blood, sweat, and tears -- but not a huge financial risk for anybody.
     
  18. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Austin is already going to have a team in the NSSL next season.

    I've lost track of where I said something about being pissed about how the factions in US soccer keep killing off good things.

    Here's the first solid evidence of it right here in Austin.

    Notice the 7th team on that list: Millenium. They're the youth club that brought the most fans to the stadium in the Aztex' first pro year.

    Here's the press release... somewhere on this page. Their site is really crappy.

    So, for those of you wanting to start a team in Austin next year, getting the hispanic sponsorships is pretty much out of the question. Millenium will have the leg up on those.

    Since the odds are pretty good that this is the top level we get for soccer in Austin next year, do I turn the other cheek (since I'm of the pretty-much-based-on-no-evidence opinion that this community was at least partly responsible for the Aztex not doing as well as they could have) and show up to their games?
     
  19. wellington

    wellington Member

    Jun 4, 1999
    Charlotte, NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Some minor league teams have host families -- who house players. Maybe an option...
     
  20. FrogHammer

    FrogHammer Member

    May 26, 2005
    I am betting that Phil offers us the rights to the PDL team in Austin for free as a peace offerring. Either that or to continue the pdl team here in town as some kind of farm team for Orlando City.
     
  21. JustinR1015

    JustinR1015 Member

    Dec 30, 2009
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I did see the Millenium after digging around a bit and discovering the NSSL. I don't know anything about the Millenium club, and I don't want to fragment the Austin soccer community anymore than it already is. Does anyone have any more info about the Millenium? VC seems to think its tied to the Hispanic community here in town.
     
  22. Blackburn

    Blackburn New Member

    Mar 13, 2007
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt it. The PDL rights will almost certainly traverse with him to Orlando.
     
  23. FrogHammer

    FrogHammer Member

    May 26, 2005
    There is an entire hispanic city league called 'Millenium' here in Austin which is roughly the equivalent in size as the AMSA mens amateur league (several thousand players).
     
  24. Stephen Heisler

    May 16, 2006
    Houston, Tx
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hello,
    First of all I'd like to say that we are very excited about the passion for the game in Austin and would welcome a community operated team to our league.

    Here are a few little things that make what we are doing different from the rest. I don't know about you guys, but to me, it gets a bit hot in Texas during the summer. What is great for western New York is not always going to be good for us here in the Lone Star state. I think Florida and Arizona would 2nd that thought. Our regular season is going to run from September until June. The exact number of games will depend on the number of teams, so here is how it may work out.

    6 Teams= 30 matches over ten months (3 & 3 with each team)
    7 Teams= 36 matches over ten months (3 & 3 with each team)
    8 teams-= 28 matches over ten months (2 & 2 with each team)
    9 teams = 32 matches over ten months (2 & 2 with each team)
    10 teams =36 matches over ten months (2 & 2 with each team)

    I like this format because it gives our clubs ample amount of time to build the home gate between matches.

    The SPSL is an open league. Players age 14+ all the way to full professional players are welcome.If Austin continues to draw 3,000+ a game, certainly the club can afford to spend a bit on players. Other clubs are utilizing a large group of younger prospects and peppering in a few professional veterans in for seasoning. The perfect mix would be half and half. Half u18s and half college grads or returning pros.

    Costs.
    The budgets can run on a shoestring with players being responsible for all expenses or the club can go all out and put up the players at the Four Seasons. Whatever the market is going to allow your group to spend. My suggestion is to start out small and going from there.

    Coach. Get a guy that is going to cross all the boundries. He can speak both Spanish and English, he can reach out to both your youth and adult players. Bring in a guy that will do it for a set percentage of net proceeds. Take care of all his soccer related expenses along the way.

    You guys are off on insurance costs. The rate is $25 per player, per year. This includes getting your building listed as additional insured. It is all wrapped up in the player insurance costs paid to US Club Soccer.

    SPSL Annual Fee- $3,000 year or $250 month. Pretty basic here.

    If any of you have additional questions, we are here to help. Feel free to contact me at any time.

    Stephen Heisler
    832-445-9983

    Austin Phoenix looks great to me.
     
  25. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    With the PDL having a bunch of Texas teams, that seems like a good option. Is there any chance the Dynamo or some other existing sponsor will put a PDL team in Austin and try to link up with the existing Aztex infrastructure?
     

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