Snowflakes in August: Arsenal at Chelsea 8/18/18

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Romfordray, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Kloppo actually did end up improving the defence significantly before the vvd signing - it just took quite a while to do it.

    The heavyweight signings in the 2 windows are about becoming a title contender.

    Matt Scott posted a decent analysis that Arsenal can't their current spending, so I guess getting back to top 4 should be the first priority and as you say, you can accept some compromises.

    The attack was 2nd= best in the league last season including better than Utd and equal to spurs

    But the defence is awful
     
  2. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    For reals. Andre Santos (!) got behind Chelsea's defense for a 1 on 1.
     
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  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Take for example the Monreal steal that led to the goal. Arsenal got far more fast paced transition in this game than we saw in most games last season
     
  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Arsenal created the third most shots in the league from recoveries high up the pitch last season (i.e. pressing).
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    ok - maybe that is cognitive bias on my part

    It felt like we mainly sat in the passive block
     
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  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Partly that it was ineffective at times and wasn't as cohesive as it could be, and party because when teams managed to play through it (like Liverpool did), it was cover your eyes stuff.

    When it worked well (Sperz and Man United at home), it was really really good.

    Arsenal had a higher PPDA than Liverpool did last season, which suggests that: a) PPDA is a flawed metric for pressing, and/or b) Liverpool don't press as much as you think. They certainly didn't press against us.
     
  7. AEAAFC96

    AEAAFC96 Member+

    Mar 27, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So...they lost to Chelsea and...defensively they looked all over the place. Worse: They could've put 5 past them. Kepa looks like a £70 million paperweight of a GK; in retrospect I'm happy Chelsea didn't snatch Leno from under their watch. Chelsea should've paid Arsenal £20 million for Cech and, at least he would've been a stopgap until they figured out who their GK of the future is.

    Xhaka's done, period. Switzerland/International football does a good job of covering up for the fact that he's slower than a turtle. Put him at a higher level of football and he's exposed. I think he should be loaned out to someone in January 'cause no way is anyone paying more than £15 million for him at this point.

    Guendouzi looks like a great bargain; young and inexperienced but has no fear of making a mistake and dwelling on it. He and Toreira should be lining up behind Ozil every league game from here on out; let those two develop a partnership to protect the back four.

    I'm liking how Arsenal attacks; it's not necessarily Wenger-ball but a little more nous to open up teams defensively and not have them get 10 behind the ball.
     
  8. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #208 Super Llama, Aug 20, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
    I forgot where I saw it (probably Statsbomb) but Arsenal's pressing was suicidal last year--we gave up the most chances from pressured transitions and most chances within a certain amount of time (I'll have to look this up because I forget the time) of an initiated pressure within the opponent's half. So while we were committed to pressing it was very poorly planned and once teams got through our first line it was, as you said, cover your eyes stuff.

    And I missed the part where you said away game performance re: attacking performances. My bad. Yeah it's been a while!

    Edit: what I was talking about is here in the Statsbomb Arsenal season preview: https://statsbomb.com/2018/08/10075/

    Arsenal gave up the second most counterattacking goals in the league, and we conceded the fifth most shots within 20 seconds of a pressure initiated in the opposition half, and more xg conceded per shot within 20 seconds of any team in the league that was also giving up a significant number of shots. Crazy shit
     
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  9. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    It's really a shame that PEA missed his chance from 8 yards, obviously it affected the result of the game but also because Bellerin made an uncharacteristically smart and accurate pass from the position he'd gotten into, by far the best thing he's done this season and it went for nothing.
     
  10. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I think the pressing last season was fundamentally different. Mainly it was send your high engine players to put pressure wherever the ball goes. It was this kind of press that led to the first goal. Bellarin decides to push high up on Willian without coordination from miki and ozil who is 10 yards from any Chelsea player. Ozil and Miki had both just sprinted 50 yds to get on the end of a cross from Monreal. Sure Miki should have done better and ozil should have pressured Jorginho and the CBs should have dealt with it, but that press was doomed from the start.

    I think city and Liverpool in particular are better now at mitigating the risk in the high risk, high reward pressing actions because they only really press when everyone is in a good position. This will take some time for us to realize the good opportunities as it did at both those clubs.
     
  11. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The best thing about that was Duzy starting play very deep with 1 pass.
     
  12. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    If we do sit back and defend, either by choice or by circumstance, for God's sake we need to internalize some understanding of the danger associated with distance to goal. In my mind it's kind of like in basketball where you can see the college 3pt line and the NBA 3pt line on the same floor.

    If the opponents are 35-40 yards away from goal, the defense is likely in ok shape because the man on the ball is going to have to play a ball 15-20 yards at least and hopefully the defense can intercept or defend that. But if we're conceding possession 20-25 yards away one little dribble or square ball and the team with the ball is already in range for a dangerous shot.

    That was my frustration with the 2nd half of the Chelsea game, beyond the goal even. How can they dribble the ball that close to our goal without our defense pushing them back?
     
  13. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the advantages Liverpool had was buying a lot of young lottery ticket players and cashing in on Barca's interest. We don't have anybody like that because everyone at the club missed the player value explosion. Not investing in young players was the biggest financial mistake of the last 10 years. FFS we sold Ox (with his 132 appearances and 9 goals) for THIRTY FIVE MILLION POUNDS. Imagine what somebody good would have gotten us.
     
  14. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Like I said when I first saw guendozi play, we will create so many more cut back chances and through balls because he turns so quickly and passes forward to find diagonal balls through to wide players and hopefully, aubameyang too

    This is what we have lacked for years

    Cesc was great at these
     
  15. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Minneapolis
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While disappointed with the mistakes, I'm satisfied with the overall progress I'm seeing. One thing I still don't get is why Emery won't play PEA and Laca more together - they've hardly that's now a full-blown bromance.
    upload_2018-8-20_13-5-38.png
     
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  16. Gunning4Chelsea

    Gunning4Chelsea Member+

    Aug 2, 2005
    chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t ********ing care.. these two have to play together .... they can score 40-50 goals together ... they get along on and off pitch and quite frankly striker duos are under appreciated
     
  17. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Xhaka is so done. Just felt like saying it again. 1 pre-season game from Duzy was all it took to see that.

    We have two 8's basically and you wouldn't be silly to think Duzy is the seasoned pro. What does Xhaka provide that Duzy doesn't, besides the long pass and odd long-range goal?
     
  18. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This article is a bit sobering....

    https://theathletic.com/481663/2018...-cant-defend-with-him-cant-score-without-him/

    It points out that Xaka is indeed a terrible defender. But he is arguably one of our best offensive players.
     
  19. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. michaec

    michaec Member

    Arsenal
    England
    May 24, 2001
    Essex
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We invested in lots of young players, but haven't realised value for them. Some might blame Wenger for a lack of coaching and organisation to make them better, some will blame the board/chief exec for letting contracts run down and having to take lower fees, whatever the reason is, we won't be making huge money from selling players as things stand.

    Liverpool may have got a huge amount for Coutinho, but that doesn't make one jot of difference to us, what matters is that we will have to find a lot of money to upgrade several positions if we want to compete for the top four for the next few seasons, never mind a title challenge. If we don't have a player we can sell for £100m+ then where is that money going to come from?

    On another note, I did enjoy the argument between Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher on Sky Sports last night about the way Emery is going about changing the style of our play. If you haven't seen it then it's worth a look: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...aghers-heated-debate-over-unai-emerys-arsenal . Neville is adamant that the manager should stick to his guns and I agree.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yeah Mike was talking about this on twitter as well.

    It's all very well subbing off Xhaka for a better defensive 8 but then Arsenal could not advance the ball.

    Possibly what this shows is just that the Xhaka puzzle cannot be solved in a high line system
     
  22. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Need to see him with Torreira.
     
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  23. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, as I said upthread. Xhaka next to Torreira or El Neny, but not Xhaka as the 6. It will never work. He doesn't have that skill set. He's much more of a deep-lying playmaker.
     
  24. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah.

    IMO, the question isn't so much whether he can play with Torreira or Guendo but rather Ramsey and Özil. Their skill sets seem to overlap quite a bit.
     
  25. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will it matter if Mkitarian, Özil and Ramsey are on the pitch with him? IMO, the problem is that having all of those guys on the pitch at the same time.

    We are simply never going to be defensively sound with those 4 guys on the pitch.
     

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