Skip Bayless on the Jim Rome Show... and I agree

Is death an option?

 

If I outlive Skip Bayless I will shit on his grave and send pictures of the act to his family, and publish them on the internet. This isn't a lie, I would really do it.

 

Who the hell is Skip Bayless?

 

I can't take a person seriously if their name is Skip.

 

How old is Skip? Just so I have an idea how long I'll have to wait for the photos.

 

Seriously, is this guy relatively important or is this like saying "Jimmy Jackass doesnt like waterpolo?"

 

I honestly don't hate him for his anti-soccer bullshit. I hate him for his "my shit doesn't smell" attitude. Guess what, Skip. Mine does.

 

At least Jim Rome tries to make an entertaining radio show. Skip Bayless just yells ridiculous opinions louder than most people and gets paid for it.

 

that guy looks like a f@g i wouldnt talk if a was him i heard him refer nfl kickers as "soccer stars" once hes a dumbass and i wouldnt pay attention to him hes never gonna get it he wouldnt last half and hour on the pitch forget his ass

 

God forbid if a rational discussion breaks out here!

I think the point about the refs is completely valid. Part of that can be offset by the "it's part of the game" argument, but missed and blown calls make the game seem unfair at times. It is only natural that on a field that large, having one ref on the field and two limited to sideline views, that many calls will be missed.

As for the dives, this is a terrible argument for anyone that has ever enjoyed a sport where Shaq takes a charge, a wide receiver tries to draw a interference call or a batter pretends to be hit by a pitch. This behavior in soccer is stoked by the refereeing situation.

 

It's a matter of knowledge and culture - like any sport. If you don't grow up around the game and/or it doesn't naturally interest the individual - they aren't going to understand or enjoy it. People can try to find individual aspects of the game, and they have spent 40 years of doing it with soccer in the U.S., that are objectionable but that's like one blind person asking another blind person to explain the color blue.

Referee's play a big part of several American sports, as big a roll as in soccer. If you don't think so, ask Mark Cuban about basketball referee's or ask any baseball pitcher about different umpires' strike zone. As for milking what they can from ref's - basketball is all about getting into the penalty and knowing how to draw falls from your opponent. Think about all the players whose game is based upon learning how to lean in on defenders and "draw" fouls.

The strategy and tactics of soccer - the movement of players on the field, runs off the ball, the idea of "space" - these things are not natural instinct. One learns these by either being a spectator or growing up around others who understand and can explain these things. If one doesn't really understand that aspect of the game then in a lot of ways soccer is a seemingly strange game where the best way to score/dominate/win isn't exactly intuitive. That's just like football or baseball or basketball, though. Every play in football isn't designed to score a touchdown, guards don't always drive to the basket, and baseball has a more complex, contrived set of rules than just about any sport and if you don't think so just ruminate on the infield fly rule, ground rule doubles, balks, foul-tip strike outs, stolen bases, and dropped third strikes.

Culturally, I do think American's like fast-paced, high-action, highly competitive games. Look at NASCAR and compare it to F1 - NASCAR is very delibaretly designed to produce lots of lead changes, lots of competitive teams/drivers with a chance to win, and will actually modify rules during the season if one particular car manufacturer's body design appears to be getting too dominant. Formula 1 might go a whole race with no lead changes, teams produce and modify their own cars while keeping their modifications very secret, and there is no effort taken to make sure one team or driver doesn't dominate the season. Also, I think Americans have a greater taste for contact and physicality than is accepted in soccer and would probably appreciate the physicality of English soccer of the 50's and 60's more than the game we see now (although I'm much more of a fan of a less physical game).

I don't think the answer for soccer in the U.S. is to try and "Americanize" soccer. I think the goal for U.S. soccer should be to continue to build and strengthen it's niche in the U.S. sports landscape, to encourage more intergration with the growing Latin American demographic which have a stronger soccer culture, and to make some inroads into the black communities. It doesn't matter if dinosaurs like Skip Bayless "gets" soccer - they will or they won't but soccer has made it this far in the U.S. without him so what could he possibly add to the movement?

 

Sorry, I love soccer, but a single charge or interference call in basketball or football plays nowhere near the role that a flop in the box does in soccer.

There are comparable incidents in football, basketball, etc., but there are fewer of them, and they play a much smaller role in determining the outcome.

 

I completely agree with you since you are talking about "in the box".

I'd be willing to place money on the fact that truly faked injuries (not played up ones) constitute about the same amount of penalties that charges or pass interference calls get.

I'd agree that the dramaticizing is a turn off to Americans, but it really is a turn off to the rest of the world too. You'd have a hard time finding Brazilian fans that were not embarassed by Rivaldo's famous corner kick flop in WC 2002. That being said is why statement about soccer "NEVER" catching on here are just off! Although those fans may not be proud of their players actions, they understand that the player is just trying to give his team an advantage. The American public in general doesn't truly get that yet. They don't get how a yellow card on the right player can change a teams style of play (an extreme example, but think about a key center back getting a yellow early on). They don't mind Shaq flying into the second row after he collides takes a charge from Tony Parker, because they understand the advantage that Shaq has just given the team. Isn't that taking advantage of the rules in more or less the same manner as Rivaldo? The diving is not a long term impediment to the sport,s growth in this country, but it certainly does not help. (BTW - the cure for diving is better/more referees or just the official that refereed the Germany match yesterday.)

 

On a similar note, (not to thread jack, but. . .)

If you get a chance to read Frank Deford's newest column for cnnsi.com. At least he has a way of pissing other sports off, too (in this case, tennis)

 

Well, we just disagree. I don't think there's nearly as much out-right faking in any of the other major American sports. I'd love to see the video of Shaq going 2 rows deep on a charge from Tony Parker.

Most casual soccer fans I know understand perfectly well the advantage that flopping gains, but find the practice dishonorable or unsporting. It's not a comprehension problem.

I'd welcome post-game reviews or in-game over-rules to correct for the flopping. Until it gets punished, it will continue.

 

To his "tell me what there is to get" I would simply ask him to please explain to me the difference between a 4-5-1 and a 3-4-3 (other than how many more/less players there are at each position) and why would a team use one formation over the other?

My guess is the majority of people who "bash" soccer would not be able to explain this... because they don't know the difference. And if you don't understand what tactics a team is using and what they are trying to accomplish with them, it is almost impossible to watch the game and get any excitement out of it because you have no idea what is going on. It just looks like they are randomly running around and kicking the ball with it occassionally going into the net for a point. If you view the sport like that, of course you are going to find it "boring".

 

While those are both two problems that many people have with soccer, I don't think that explains why soccer isn't as big as it should be. But to be honest, I don't really have an answer either other than us Americans play many sports, and so soccer is just one out of the many.

 

I am surprised Bayless spent so much time talking about soccer. To me that's a sign of progress. I'm not surprised the anti-soccer types went wild. They really must have felt threatened.

Have to agree that I wish FIFA made better use of technology and the diving is definitely a turnoff. As a long time soccer fan, I will never accept diving and flopping. I understand the rationale, but it just sucks. It's awful to see someone as talented as C. Ronaldo -- and he is hardly alone -- constantly resort to this, even at times when he may well have done better staying on his feet.

 

I don't need those mainstream folks to get it. Let the soccer culture just continue to slowly grow by those folks who want to get it.


Every sport has problems -- we have diving and simulation and the whole embellishment thing. These guys know they don't like soccer first. Then they find their reasons. Fixing our problems (which would be a good thing and well worth our efforts) would not result in them getting it or liking soccer.

What makes soccer great is that one goal matters. I hope we never lose sight of that or destroy that.

 

I am not disputing that in soccer there is acting.

However I want to make a couple of point which seem to escape everyone:

1) Most Refs will not call a foul until you hit the ground, therefore to have a career a player needs to learn to sell the first couple of touches in the knees or ankles. Otherwise by the age of 18 his ankles and/or knees will be gone.
This has NOTHING to do with diving in the box... I am just talking of going down when fouled.

2) About the pain: have you ever been kicked in the ankle? Or kicked behind the knee or thigh? Players only wear a little shinguard... there are no pads or anything. Absolutely, there is acting, however most of the pain in soccer is acute, stingy and short lived (unless there is a serious injury).
So, you get off the field, shake it off... get some ice on it and than you go back in and play.
That doesn't mean that the pain wasn't real and that doesn't mean that my ankles weren't blue on some Mondays.


That is part of the game... if Americans will never understand, so be it.

 

As for diving and flopping, I have my own theory around this:

1. Teams, both international and top club teams, play higher pressure defense with higher lines both in midfield and on the back line. In the 70's and 80's, I saw teams that pulled their midfield back well within their own half of the field, always tried to stay well behind the ball, and marked man-to-man on the back line with a sweeper in the back. I'm not saying that always happened but I think it was the predominant tactic. Now, midfielders play high-pressure defense on the opponents side of the midline or just inside the midline, there is a strong emphasis on slowing down or stopping counter-attack possibilities before they can get started, pack more midfielders into the midfield often with a holding defender in-front of the defensive lines, and defenders play flat-back zones that emphasize stopping attacks with offsides.

2. The new tactics result in less fluid play, less ability to have midfield build-up in attack, and many more one-on-one tackling confrontations that end up stopping or severly limiting end-to-end action

3. Players in midfield can't afford to get beaten without severly hurting the back-line zone. This means midfielders have to shut down the attack at all costs which means more slide-tackles - slide-tackles that may be aimed at getting the ball but are down in such a way that even if the ball isn't won then the other player can't "beat" them i.e. take out slides that get feet or legs if they don't get the ball.

4. This means more fouling in midfield and less flow, build-up, and counter-attacking.

5. With midfields crammed full of 10 to 14 players from both sides, no room to put together any build-up, and lots and lots of chippy fouls - teams try to get cards on the other team to cut down the other team's ability to continue playing high pressure defense in midfield or actually get a player kicked out of the game to get some actual space. Players are frustrated and they take out that frustration in committing more fouls or in trying to draw fouls and cards.

6. Ultimately, this sets up set pieces to be even more important all the time and more emphasis on getting more set pieces which just continue the cycle.

So, as a fan, I find the new tactics extremely frustrating except when my team is doing it and they are winning. I can't argue against the tactics - they make sense. What I hate as a fan is the constant disruption in the flow of the game, the constant fouling in the middle of the field, and playing to get cards on the other team's players. It used to be diving was predominately a tactic employed in and around the penalty area. Now it takes place everywhere with increasing level of acting to try and up the ante so officials feel like they have to throw more and more yellow cards to get control of games until they get to a point that they have boxed themselves in and half to give a red on a second yellow. That's what I dislike but how can you stop the tactic? If anything, you've seen that no player or coach will pull away from the tactic - they'll just plug in another player and complain about the state of officiating. No player is going to quit because if he doesn't keep playing high pressure defense then he is going to get beat and the other team will get a dangerous chance and they'll get kicked out before they will get taken out by the coach for being ineffective. FIFA tells the referees to be tighter on fouling and diving but it just adds to the avalanche of cards - and then they talk about having suspensions after 3 yellows instead of two yellows, in effect under-cutting their own sanction.

So, cards aren't stopping the problem. Teams and players aren't going to stop the problem. What can you do? There are the ideas of some technological/replay technology/after-game-review but FIFA doesn't appear to really want to do anything to remove stars from playing games. There are those who think by pressing the rules harder will solve the problem but I think that's been taken to it's limit and the cure seems worse than the disease. There is the idea of making players who are hurt stay off the field for a set limit of time but your going to end up causing several mini-crisis everytime a player is sent of - was he really faking, was he really hurt, how hurt was he? That seems like more problems not less.

My suggestion? Outlaw slide-tackles - no more leaving your feet to engage in a tackle. Ends the cornerstone technique that's part of the high-pressure defense tactic. Ends the main way players are getting hacked up with overly agressive tactics. Allows players with greater skill and technique who beat someone to actually beat them instead of a player managing to slide in and stop an exciting play with a boring free throw, foul, or dive. Slide-tackling is a relatively new technique that was used sparingly up until the last 20 years when it become the most pervasive defensive tactic.

Crazy idea - probably. I doubt that anything will actually be done but I do think the flow of the game has been damaged some in recent years.

 

skip's comments are ridiculous.

anyone who claims that the don't like the offside rules or can't understand them DOESN'T want to understand them. they are easy. if americans can grasp the fluid foul calls of the NBA or pass interference calls in the NFL or any of the other garbage rules that litter american football, i think they can figure out the offsides rule. heck, doesn't hockey have an offsides rule? this shouldn't be so new and terrifying to most americans. those who act like it is probably are too stupid to think of any of the more legit reasons for hating soccer.

as for the flopping. has anyone ever seen an nba game? there is flopping, and the like in every sport. you ever seen a catcher tag a guy he knew was safe and then start walking away like the inning is over? even before the ump made the call? ever seen vlade divac play? there is flopping and attempts to influence officiating in every sport.