Skillfull, Hopefully Interesting Talents: The Summer 19 Transfer Forum

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Wingtips1, Feb 24, 2019.

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  1. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #726 EruditeHobo, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    Positionally, neither Delph nor Foden are competing with either of them... but regardless, Foden played 330 minutes because of their injury issues specifically.

    The Liverpool-City match, which by and large might have decided the title, City's players on the bench were Walker, Gundogan, Otamendi, KDB, Mahrez, Jesus. I've got news, Lallana, Origi, Shaq, Ox, Wilson, Kent, Brewster, they are not getting near that bench. Ox would see some minutes over the course of the season, sure, but he's spending the vast majority of his time not playing for City. He is an energy guy, great for Klopp! But in those attacking positions City plays much more technical (and frankly just more skilled) players.

    They WERE weaker in holding mid, until this summer.
    As far as CB, it doesn't really matter because they have what they need for the style they play, even with injuries there they've made it work. Pep's system helps hugely in this regard.
    "Front three" does not refer to depth. I'd have our front 3, too... but expand it just a little bit, to their front 4 or 5 (or best 4-5 attackers), they're winning.

    117M net is what transfermarkt has, and the year before we made 19M net! So that's <50M per season net over those 2 years.

    No one disagrees. But just getting at least 1 top-tier player right now is not "crazy" spending. That would be "relaxed investment".
    That said I don't think anyone is saying the wheels will fall off -- you don't need to crash into a brick wall in order to miss a key (and seemingly pretty rare) opportunity.

    And Danny came off this year, who was on 6 figures a week.
    They just made 185M from the CL alone, they are top of earnings due to prem TV deal... 65M a summer is very, very doable.

    Yeah, this isn't even half of the reason why Arsenal are in this state. I know you know this.

    Let's hope for no serious or concurrent injuries, then! This is a position that I would prefer not to be in, and since they have every reason to get deeper with 1 more quality versatile signing in attack, I expect it this summer.

    This is not the way it works. Their CM is fine, they are a control and attack oriented side that dominates matches through their technique and possession. They have already shown their ability to withstand injuries, they still got to 98 points THROUGH the injuries last season. So you're really missing the point, I think.

    I say that ordinarily really loving your posting and point of view, but you're way off on this from my perspective.
    We will have to wait and see how it all shakes out for the I told you so's. If they sign a good player, or if they don't get injuries in attack, we'll never really know. So we'll see what happens I suppose.

    You are completely, uncharitably misunderstanding what I'm saying. Of course Liverpool aren't in the same position as Spurs, and of course Spurs were happy with a complete flukey surprise trip to the CL final! No shit. They also almost missed top 4.

    The ENTIRE point is that "pulling a Spurs" for Liverpool looks different than for Spurs. LFC aren't going to be struggling for top 4. Duh. What I meant by "pulling a Spurs" was to miss an opportunity. This is a chance to strengthen in a way that hasn't been possible for a long, long time. They have the cache, they have the money, they have the loveable, brilliant, successful manager, they have the squad to compete for at least a couple/few years to come, and I repeat they have the money.

    To not act now, in THIS situation, is to "pull a Spurs"... it is in many ways short-sighted considering how rarely this exact opportunity has presented itself in literally the last 30 years (hint: it's never presented itself!). To have done the squad management that they have done doesn't matter nearly as much when they don't keep on top of it and keep reinforcing with completely reasonable sums in order to continue to improve. All that good work, over a number of years under Klopp and FSG, it's not going to completely disappear overnight! But without consistent investment of top talent, I don't know if we'll ever know what the ceiling of this project is... that's what I'm talking about.

    Not ********ing being in the same position as Spurs. Come on.
     
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  2. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #727 EruditeHobo, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    Btw @idreamofpikas, I wanted to come back to this specific point because this is important...

    If you wanted to argue this above point, you could argue someone would get on that bench. Maybe someone would say one of Ox/Shaq would get on for Mahrez. Probably Ox, for some energetic running from wide positions.

    Now... just think about that, because that's what we're talking about:
    1 single player from that list of LFC's attacking backups might get on City's bench, sometimes. Frankly I'm not sure how often they would due to how City play. However, from that list we could see any number of 3 of them -- sometimes maybe even 4 of them? -- fairly consistently on a fully healthy LFC's bench.

    Now it's not a horrible group to choose 3 from as your backups! But compared to City that is a huge difference. If you want to catch up to City (which should be what this season is about, I'd think?) a 60M purchase this summer (while getting some funds from a few sales) is completely reasonable.
     
  3. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Sure. And 24 months ago people like yourself wanted us to sign a CB when VVD was not available. The club wisely waited for the player they wanted to become available. And that was when we were in actual need of a first team player.

    Spending for the sake of spending is not always the answer. You are pointing to City as the ideal but look at United, they've spent for the sake of it and in the past 18 months Sanchez, Dalot and Fred have not improved them.

    If the players that Klopp or the board are not available right now then it is better to wait rather than be lumberd with some inferior attacker on high wages that neither the manager or the scouts had faith in us buying.

    Buying 1 50-60 million attacker does not guarantee that we will finish any better than last season, spending for the sake of spending is never the answer. Andy Carroll, Aquilani, Balotelli, Benteke and a host of many other players over the last two decades should remind every Liverpool fan that patience is a virtue worth having.
     
  4. burning247

    burning247 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    England
    Sep 16, 2000
    Dallas
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We can all argue until we're blue in the face but FSG has already said that Klopp gets a blank check, so it's basically on him. I trust him to keep the squad balanced, happy and in a position to challenge for all....*checks notes*.....7 (!!) pieces of silverware.
     
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  5. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    They are in the Man City squad are they not? Between them they made 46 appearances last season. They are Man City squad players.

    We are not Man City, are owners are annoyed with Man City for continually ignoring/bypassing the financial fair play rules. Liverpool FC is not the plaything, it is run as a business.

    I don't mind us buying another expensive attacker but with Origi beeing offered a new contract and Klopp inidicating that he wants Shaq to stay then I know from a financial POV it is not happening. A more modest 20-30 million pound player is, a player like the ones you mentioned is not.


    They WERE weaker in holding mid, until this summer.

    Let's wait till we see how Rodri does, or how grandpa Fernandinhio play next season before we start proclaiming them better than our guys.

    of course it matters when we are comparing squads.


    Again, how does it not matter? Would you rather we sold Salah (on 200k a week) and use his wages to buy two inferior attackers?

    It does matter. We have the best CB and Forward in the league and we pay them the going rate for their abilty. A consequence of this is less wages to go around for other areas of the squad.



    Use wiki, it has links to the Guardian, Telegraph or Echo transfers. This is one of the rare cases wiki is the more reliable source.


    If there was one who the club felt could genuinly improve the team then I have no doubt the owners would make the funds available.

    But they are not spending the 60-70 million on Pepe or other players of his ilk to play a few hundred minutes next season.

    Look I'd love us to buy the league as well, but we are not that type of club, we are trying to be ran responsibly.


    Last season we could not justify Danny's wage so happily sent him out on loan, we would have done the same for one of Origi or Sturridge this season if a serious offer came in, instead it was Clyne who was sent away. Our wage is huge right now, thanks to our Champions League exploits it is managable but the club is not looking to further increase it as there is no guarantee that we will do as well in the CL next season.



    Well not exactly. A certain amount of the 185, the group stages, first knock out stage, would have been incorportated into out actual budget. That would have been expected revenue. The idea that the club made an extra 185 million is a lie no matter how many times it is repeated.



    It actually is. There wage bill last year was 60% of turnover, ours 58%. They have little room to grow with the earners they have on their wage bill, it is not so much about transfer funds for them as keeping the wage bill from swallowing them whole. They have needed to offload larger earners to be able to bring in new players. United, City and Spurs all have lower rations of wage bill to turn over in 2018 than us and Arsenal.

    Now we have certainly increased out wage bill since 2018. The club is going to spend one transfer window relaxed on the big money signings.



    We have really great depth at CB and CM, better than most in the league. But I have news for you, if Salah and Mane pick up concurrent long term injuries Pepe is not going to change that, the kid signed to Atletico for over 100 mlliion is not going to change that.

    Same is true of most teams. Barca would have been ********ed last season had Messi and Suarez picked up injuries at the same time for a sustained period.



    We both seem to be missing each others points. We are not City, we can not compete with them every year in the transfer window.

    I'd love it if we could, but from a financial point of view and a management point of view the club has indicated that Origi, Shaq, Brewster and either Wilson or a new 20/30 million pound alternative will be our roation forwards next season.

    We have been the second best team in the league points wise these past two seasons and the best team in Europe these last two seasons without an expensive wide option on the bench.



    I don't know if I've caught you on a bad day or misremeber you as a poster but you seem a lot angrier than you used to be.:p[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  6. Suss

    Suss Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Not long ago our squad included Coutinho, along with our current front three. We were desperate to keep Coutinho and did everything to try to keep him. Last summer we had signed Fekir signed before the medical. There is plenty of evidence to think the club wants another attacker.

    Perhaps Shaqiri filled that void, but that was convenient and cheap and not necessarily the man Klopp wanted. He hardly used him last season.

    We aren’t going to buy for the sake of buying. I don’t see how this relates to the situation with Van Dijk. Yes, we waited for him. How do you know that the player we really want isn’t already available and we don’t have to wait? We could even have 2 or 3 targets this time around. Salah wasn’t originally Klopp’s first choice. If that player isn’t available, then it makes sense to wait, but if he is it can improve our squad.

    We also leaned from the situation with Van Dijk and no longer make any of our targets public. The company line is that Liverpool don’t intend to do any major business this summer, but it doesn’t mean that it’s true. Last season the club wanted us to believe that Danny Ward was going to be our starting goalkeeper.
     
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  7. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, most importantly... no one is saying spending will guarantee anything, and no one is advocating for poor spending or even hasty spending.

    This is a big difference, buying "just to buy" versus taking a huge opportunity. The opportunity is the club with an incredible first 11 uses their money, which is plentiful, in order to further strengthen a great side with the best attacker that will sign. It has taken a looooong time for Liverpool to be in this position, to actually get the chance to really be buying top quality for their bench. We've all watched City, Chelsea, and United do it. We don't have to do it their way, we have done it the FSG way, but the result can still be the same. I'm saying Liverpool need to now do their version of that. Which is not to say they need to go try and sign Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Neymar or whatever...

    And let's be real... your list of panic buys, first of all, apart from Carroll who had a whole entire other context attached to his signing, I personally was firmly against all of them. So I'm with you, I'm against bad buying. Moreover those were all dictated by a couple important things, namely LFC's limited appeal in the transfer market in the aftermath of H&G, but also not getting better players whom were sought after but turned Liverpool down (I suppose those are linked, somewhat).

    Liverpool's draw right now is in an entirely different stratosphere than it was from 2011-2015. And if they cannot find a possible 55-65M improvement to the attack in all of world football (and it's clear they've been after them, on some level)... well then that's pretty concerning, because it speaks to an entirely different kind of failure, as far as I'm concerned.
     
  8. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #733 EruditeHobo, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    Yeah I agree, and it's why City are addressing holding midfield this summer. But we were specifically talking about attackers.

    Spending this summer is still running as a very smart business... reinvesting profits which might bring on even more revenues, and more trophies, in the short and medium term.

    I literally do not know what you mean, the club is in profit, they are on a net spend of 35M per season averaged over a decade. I'd accept "Klopp promises these guys they get to play this season" as a better reason than these financial constraints you're talking about. Don't know what you mean. I'm all for running generally responsible as opposed to City's ludicrous 550M net in 6 years or whatever it is... LFC's wage budget, I mean signing another star doesn't break things.

    The finances are doing just fine.

    Okay! This is fair. We will see.

    It's simple, it doesn't matter because this has specifically been a discussion about attacker depth in the event of one or more injuries to Liverpool's star attackers all of whom I love dearly. That's all I've been talking about. So I'm not comparing them to City's "front three"... I'm comparing 4-6 to City's 4-6, because that is a big part of the difference between these squads.

    Fine. Regardless, their net spend over the last 2 seasons is an average of around 50M a season.

    Good, then they will be signing a top player. Otherwise you are saying there is no player in world football that LFC believes could improve the depth of the attack. Which would be odd.

    Fine, ******** Pepe. But signing that caliber of player would dictate more rotation, just like signing Fabinho & Keita dictated a move away from the stalwert CM that got them to the CL final the previous season.

    It is responsible to improve on the outgoing Danny Sturridge and sign some really good attacker depth, which might not even take up 100% of his wages. Buying one player instead of zero players isn't "buying the league".

    Where is the indication that this was due to some financial concern? I mean, if these players don't figure then sure why not get the wages off their books, but for a player like Clyne there are lots of other possible explanations.

    Do you have any source for this?

    No, not "an extra" 180-185M. But that figure, it's what they made, somewhere in that region. Again, club in profit, made tons of money which more than makes up for that "high summer spending" you were referring to last summer. Which is also mitigated by the previous summer being in the black.

    This is possible I just don't think you've supported this argument very well. I'm open to seeing some evidence of this financial concern. I mean i get the wage bill is high, but going a little higher in an attempt to win the league makes decent sense all other context considered.

    I'm not going to talk about Arsenal anymore... they for years have pissed away transfer money, extended players poorly, have never threatened for top silverware, and/or lost key players for discounts or for free. None of this applies to what is happening at Liverpool right now.

    A signing like a Havertz or a Werner or a Fernandes or a Jokic is going to give you a better chance of withstanding that kind of blow than an Origi, an Ox, a Lallana, a Wilson. That's the only real point. Doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work out. These injuries might not even happen, after all, but in general a rotation approach in this system makes a lot of sense and more quality never hurt anyone in the short term.

    And that's what this team needs to be concerned about. The short term of winning the prem ASAP, with these players in their primes.

    Well right, perhaps, but somewhat less so considering they are in La Liga, they won the league by 11 points, and have Dembele, Malcom, & Coutinho all there having played fewer than 2000 minutes in the league. And they are after Griezmann this summer.

    Again... please don't take from this that I believe LFC should operate like Barca! I do understand that's not possible.

    However, LFC are here, now, in this position, having spent an average of 35M per season over the last 10-11 seasons, with a profitable club, with lucrative new kit deal coming soon, with CL success and the reward payments to match. Going and getting some top level depth isn't suddenly turning them into debt-ridden Barca, or billionaire toy club City.

    I just like arguing!!!!
     
  9. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a note - Man City’s wage bill is fraudulent - they were higher than us once you count all their offshore movement.
     
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  10. el-capitano

    el-capitano Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 30, 2005
    Sydney
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
  11. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I don't know anything for a fact, but the interviews from Klopp, journalists associated with the club, the general chatter at Anfield the last month of the season and our lack of movement in the market suggests that we are not, which given the financial outlay on last season on both transfers and a number of heavily improved (and deserved) new contracts for a number of players is not really surprising.

    The transfer window closes in less than a month, this time last season we had already signed Fabinho and Keita (obviously) and Shaq and Alisson were signed this week this time last year (and our interest in both known before this week). The previous season Salah had alreay been signed, the Robertson signing dragged a little longer as we negotiated the price we wanted. Only Ox was a late signing, but it was well known that we wanted him and he wanted to come here.

    klopp is very big on squad harmony and having his players have a full preseason. Occam's Razor suggests that there will be no big signing this summer, something all the ITK's connected to the club have been heavily briefing fans for the last few months.

    Klopp has promised both Origi, who we were trying to offload this time last summer had Wolves met our price he'd have left, and Brewster more playing time, he talks of Ox as a brand new signing ( I know, tired old cliche) so there is clearly more options in attack at the start of this season, at least that is how the manager percieves it.

    At the end of last season he'd also started using keita in the forward three rather than middle three. The success of TAA and Robertson on the flanks and their greater attacking flexibility has decreased the talk of a potential 4-2-3-1 attack.

    Another thing is the club's future is very much seen as bringing in the best youth players in the world and developing them. When we bought Solanke we gave him minutes, in part because Klopp rated him, in part because we wanted to develop him(the most important part) and also because we wanted to show the best youth players in the world that Liverpool FC is a club they can progress at. Signing a 50 million rotation forward halts Brewster's development and breaks a promise we made to the player to stop him leaving for Germany on a pittance two seasons ago. Both Klopp and the Club are on the same page on this matter in valuing progression.
     
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  12. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Member+

    May 22, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    So then, we are on the same page. If we don't spend 50million on a new attacker it is due to the club thinking anyone available right now is not worth that outlay. It is not some kind of failiure but the club accessing the situaton.

    First of all you don't really know that. You have no idea jow quickly any of those players would take to adapt to the Prem. It took Keita time and he was earmarked for a first team spot and been heavily scouted by the club.

    I'm presuming you are talking about Jovic? Benifica fans did not expect him to blow up like he did, so far he's performed well in Germany, just like Werner and Havertz have (both of whom seem intent on signing for Bayern like most German born footballers).

    Fernandes is an excellent midfielder, but he's not an attacker and has a freedom in the middle that Klopp's style of play does not really suit. He would have to change how we play to accomodate him. But yeah, excellent player, but not really part of this conversation given he's not a wide forward.

    He did play one game last season as a wide forward and scored a hatrick in the 8-1 win against 10 man Belenses but overall it is not really his most effective positon.

    A mixture of match day talk and common sense.

    Last season we were open to bids for Origi, Klopp did not actually want to sell Solanke nor did the board but given the outlay in the summer and him being less needed than we thought we ended up doing so. Origi would have gone if we had bids. Clyne was allowed to leave despite a great game against United, the previous season Sturridge was allowed to go out on loan.

    It is not a desperate need to sell or alleviate the wage budget, but a practical decision. The owners have been great but they are still treating us like a business
     
  13. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Yaawn.......Tell me the season will start soon. Between trying to second guess Klopp and FSG. And advocating for several more referees on the pitch in another thread.
    This really is the silly season.
    How about we limit posts to 140 characters??????
     
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  14. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Barcelona have ‘made enquiries’ into the availability of Liverpool defender Virgil van Dijk, according to reports.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[I]:ROFLMAO:[/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I][/I]
     
  15. bayred

    bayred Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    May 28, 2018
    Well we've had quite a discussion, congrats to pikas and Hobo for some nice analysis, to come to the pretty evident (simplest?) conclusion that we're going with what we've got unless a unique "perfect fit" kind of transfer opportunity comes along. I've been good with that, let's see if we can give the rest of lads injections of Millie DNA to keep them going at 100% all season.
     
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  16. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a problem if the club looks at world football and comes to that conclusion. But I suppose we are in agreement, overall. And if Klopp really wants to go at it with Origi and Brewster, that's probably okay. They'll be good, the front 3 probably won't get devastating injuries keeping them out for weeks or months.

    This is generally a good point, but I do think you're overlooking a few things:
    - Keita was dealing with injuries
    - Other new players have come on strong about halfway (or so) into the season, like all three of Fabinho, Robbo, and even Shaq, for instance
    - Halfway into the season is when fixtures get crazy and when some injuries can tend to be happening, it's happened to attackers in each of last 3 season IIRC
    - Halfway is when you'd be able to rely on the new guy, who has been settled and gotten spot minutes with the squad, to rotate in for said fixture congestion

    Apart from all that, which I feel is somewhat valid, it's worth it for the attempt alone, the attempt to bring in more top talent in a window in which you don't need to spend anywhere else.

    He's already moving to Madrid, he's just an example. These all are just examples.

    He's absolutely a part of this because he's an attacker which would allow Ox for instance to get accoustomed to a Mane-backup role and would bring more cover and creativity into the attack. That said I do agree the number 1 priority should be someone that COULD be a Mane replacement. But he has played wide and Milner wasn't a left back until he was and did well at it. Mane and Firmino weren't 9s until they were played there and did well. Coutinho wasn't a LW until he played that role well for Klopp. Etc.

    I don't think any of this movement is even mostly about wages. But it's impossible to tell, and anytime you can get a player who is not in your plans off the wage bill, especially someone like Studge on 115k a week or whatever, it's wise to do so.

    And not buying in this summer in order to hedge on the amazing work that has been done so far is, in my estimation, very short-sighted business. I've laid out the reality of the finances of the club -- you say the wage bill is high, I get why that is something to be concerned about and Danny leaving doesn't solve it, however almost everyone is locked down on long deals, they have a new kit deal coming up, and since FSG took over the number of their net spend is something like 50M a season. For a club in profit making record revenues, this is a very doable task.

    All that said, mostly we agree I think... if Klopp is really fine with all this, I guess I'm fine too. I'm reading all this stuff about quiet summer and trusting Brewster & Origi with some time, and even though I remember he said he wasn't buying Alisson this press does lend some credence to what you're saying about wages, money, and going after THE right player as opposed to anyone.

    I just feel it's a mistake. They are in a position to gamble a LITTLE bit. It feels important that they do, the league is worth it. I don't see them winning without strengthening this season, I really don't.

    Once again we'll see how it shakes out.

    Sorry for the verbose and self-indulgent back and forth.
     
    idreamofpikas repped this.
  17. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are only 4 or 5 characters up in here: you, me, Hobo and those two other guys...
     
    usscouse repped this.
  18. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    someone once said the same thing ot me about David Ngog. he turned out exactly as I thought he would. Solanke is prob about that good (maybe).
    Origi is much better.....
     
  19. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    two things. You can't really replace Mane. Hazard maybe ....
    other than that I don't know who....

    I think the idea that Ox would have to re-learn the position he played for years at Arsenal is over-stated in your analysis. We'r eforgetting that he played a lot of those wider attacker roles ....
     
  20. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Careful - You'll attract the Oranje-loon.... ;)
     
  21. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
  22. zaqualung

    zaqualung Member+

    Jun 17, 2015
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    we'll be fine if Ox and Naby hit the ground running ....
     
  23. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    FWIW - which probably isn't a lot ...... the Coutinho-to-LFC-on-loan rumours growing stronger.
     
  24. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All from that same poor source, right?

    Why would Barca give LFC that break? Here, take the last years of Coutinho's athletic prime for free? The cost of wages? And tack on an option to buy that you'll just refuse?

    If someone could explain the logic of that I'm happy to entertain this idea.
     
  25. Suss

    Suss Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Let’s say it was possible. Who would want him back?
     

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