Silly Season 2017-2018 (rumors)

Discussion in 'Atlanta United FC' started by Gunner, Nov 3, 2017.

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  1. Gunner

    Gunner Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Marietta, Ga USA
    Not wanting to clog up the "news" thread I thought I'd start dialogue on rumors involving Atlanta this winter.


    There's the story about Franco Escobar an Argentine defender

    https://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/20...ees-to-sign-argentine-defender-franco-escobar

    https://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/20...o-escobar-atlanta-united-transfer-rumors-news



    There is also allegedly another suitor for Almiron. Newcastle is being added to the mix with Inter Milan and Arsenal.

    http://www.myajc.com/sports/atlanta...ld-forever-change-mls/EiBfwHRZCf0Fmlaj0mvjqK/

    https://www.footballfancast.com/pre...iguel-almiron-could-be-an-ayoze-perez-upgrade



    When you're hot you're hot and its not just our players in demand. Martino allegedly was offered the USMNT position and declined....

    https://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/2017/11/3/16602808/tata-martino-reportedly-turns-down-usmnt-job
     
  2. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I read about Newcastle. I was really hoping we could keep Almiron for one more season.
     
  3. Gunner

    Gunner Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Marietta, Ga USA
  4. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Come on, UEFA- give us just one more chance at this game, PLEASE!

    <rant>Our best chance of success over the next 4-5 seasons is already behind us? This can't be happening. We're not like other MLS teams- we just fielded the greatest team MLS has ever seen on most given days, TFC's points be damned. We just gave MLS its first taste of world-class atmosphere and attendance, Seattle notwithstanding. We're a potential champion whose brutal season-ending schedule made us look like just another good team. When either of those two leaves, we will be just another good team unless Tata just knows where to find the next pair who score and assist like that. </rant>

    Just. One. More. Shot.
    Please...
     
  5. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    I don't think they'll sell unless they have assurances that MLS will increase the amount of proceeds that can be plowed back into the roster via allocation money (a rule change currently under consideration). They're already making enough at the gate and via merchandise sales that profit won't be a motive to sell. If they sell either Almiron or Martinez, it would be to improve the roster via a warchest of money to be used on replacement DPs, plus a significant increase in allocation money to be used on the rest of the roster.
     
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  6. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Glad to read this. I've been hoping that our attendance/sales would translate into the advantage it should be, Almiron and Martinez aside. Clubs that can't sell seats and shirts don't need to be kept competitive at the expense of clubs that can.

    Of course, there wasn't any AUFC swag available until this year, so that revenue will probably not be as high in the future unless we become a national brand.

    Thanks again. This is my first year paying attention to MLS and I have no idea, really, how any of it works yet.
     
  7. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    There are a lot of competing priorities that are tough to keep in balance. On one hand, they want each club to be financially viable. You can't grow the league if teams are folding every few years. Thus the rather modest salary cap of around $4 million.

    That said, they also want teams to be able to sign elite players to elevate the quality of play. Thus the David Beckham rule that ushered in the ability to sign up to 3 designated players where only a small portion of their salary counts against the cap, and the addition of allocation money to pay a few others above the league max.

    That said, they don't want to become a league where a few deep-pocketed teams dominate and everyone else is rendered irrelevant. Competitive balance has proven to be an important ingredient to long-term success for other American sports leagues.

    Finally, they want MLS to provide first-division, professional club opportunities for American players to help grow US Soccer. Thus the cap on 8 international players per senior roster so there will still be spots in the starting 11 for US players.

    Trying to keep all three of those things in balance is a challenge but I'd argue MLS has done a solid job of it so far. As a next step though, I happen to think the entire league would benefit from allowing teams to re-use most of the proceeds from a player sale to improve their roster, especially since the league takes a cut they can share with everyone else.
     
  8. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    #9 Auriaprottu, Nov 8, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    I get that. But at the same time, I don't feel like it's fair for Uncle Arthur, Atlantans and nearby fans to make MLS relevant globally after 22 years of whatever, only to have noncontributing clubs that can't average 20K benefit off AUFC's hard work.

    Baseball's been just fine for generations with exactly the imbalance you describe. It's part of why the Yankees have almost twice as many championships as the runner-up in that category. And the nfl, when I was a fan, had a similar imbalance for any team with an old stadium with no boxes. That's despite the cap. My former favorite sports team was a contender in the mid-90s but failed at the last hurdle in 1995 and had to sell a lot of players because Three Rivers didn't provide the revenue that more modern stadiums did. They built Heinz Field and the success returned. Two championships and one failed title game in five years.

    I don't really get bent out of shape about this because AUFC has done fine with Tata choosing the US talent that doesn't hurt us (as MLS goes, Parkhurst is good, Guzan is good and Garza is great) but I'd much rather have a great MLS club than an average MLS club with a great NT. Club ball drives this game.

    Absolutely.
     
  9. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    #10 Coyote89, Nov 8, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    You have to remember that if not for the original clubs, AUFC wouldn't exist. They came into the league 22 years ago when the quality of play, financial stability, TV presence, facilities, etc. were nothing compared to what they are today. They did the hard work to make the league viable and are now saddled with he perceptions created in an era when MLS was viewed like single A baseball. It's much easier to create a situation like Atlanta or Seattle when you can join an existing, stable league, years after they've already suffered through all of the growing pains.

    As for the parity issue, the imbalance in baseball isn't what you think, at least not anymore. 26 clubs now spend over $100 million and 15 spend over $150 million. So, the difference between the big-spenders like the Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox is not that big compared to the rest of the league and we're now in an era where clubs like Houston and Kansas City can win it all. Huge TV deals made that possible. But MLS is a LONG way from having TV deal big enough to lift all boats and offset the advantages or disadvantages clubs have in gate revenue or simply the individual wealth of the respective owners. If we fail to ensure that everyone can compete, we'll end up with 2-3 super-clubs and the rest of the league will be rendered irrelevant, just like La Liga or Bundesliga where the same 1-2 teams win the title EVERY year.

    Finally, regarding the international vs. domestic balance, MLS was founded as a condition of hosting the 1994 World Cup with the specific intention of growing the sport in this country. So, it's part of the league's charter and it's in our DNA. Thus the developmental academies, homegrown player rules, international roster limits, etc. And I think that's a good thing. Ask EPL fans how they feel about not having a single English player in their favorite club's starting 11 (not all teams, but many). Obviously, we need the international component to elevate the level of competition and to truly be a global league. And we can have 8 per senior roster, including all 3 DPs if we want. But we're also trying to expand interest in soccer here in the US, increase participation, increase the player pool for the USMNT, etc. I'd love to see Andrew Carlton starting for both AUFC and the USMNT someday. We may lose him to Europe eventually, but that's what our league should at least strive to become.
     
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  10. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I remember. But you have to admit that they brought some of it on themselves, like the running start PK and the clock that counts down instead of up. The latter was not that much of a biggie; the former was bush league for real.

    I wanted to start a thread about that fourth sub in extra time of playoff games, but I didn't. I found it ridiculous and I'm glad we're not famous enough for the world to joke about it. Bottom line, I don't want MLS to be the first to try anything. Let established footballing nations do that and then adopt what they come up with. I'm cool with playoffs because I know they happen outside the USA, in nations with decades of history in the Game.

    I agree totally with this, and I'm much more grateful for it than I seem in writing.

    Wolfsburg won it just a few years ago and then got relegated, IIRC. The Bundesliga isn't a 1 team league and neither is La Liga a 2 team league (Atletico Madrid, three years ago). Meanwhile, England is at best a four-team league (forget Leicester City), which isn't all that much more parity than a two-team league. Only what- six clubs have won the Premiership (since 1992)? Check my math on that. I mean, sure, they have more contenders than the other nations, but if those contenders keep falling short (looking at you, Spurs), they're not really contenders after a while.

    Plus, Man City and Chelsea were fortunate to be bought in the last decade by someone willing to invest in winning. Without Roman and whoever bought City, they'd still be schedule fillers for the eventual champ. Big clubs with thousands of fans, winning nothing.

    England's in the unusual position of being asked to maintain its status as the world's best league, but it doesn't have the domestic talent to satisfy its unique demand for top-class ball. What they did for the Game is put money into their league that other nations haven't, still. They got passed over talentwise decades ago, but their organizational skills and fan money kept them at the top.

    And they're a global league as well, of course. There are more EPL fans outside England's borders (or coast) than inside them. I doubt a Chelsea fan living in Tokyo or Bombay or Los Angeles cares how many English start at Stamford Bridge.

    Kid's going to make some club a great asset. I hope it's ours, even if it's only for a short time.
     
  11. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    I don't mind having a few key differences from the international leagues. I wasn't a fan of the way PKs were originally done, the clock counting down instead of up, using OT or PKs in regular season instead of allowing ties, etc. So, I'm glad we got rid of those silly attempts to Americanize the game. But there are several differences that I actually prefer and think are in the best interest of the US game, at least for now, including:

    • Playoffs: Since we don't have pro/rel and the CONCACAF Champions League doesn't seem to command a ton of attention, the playoffs are the only thing that helps preserve some late-season drama and keep more than just the top couple teams interested. We knew by August that NYC FC was the only team in the league that had a prayer of catching TFC for 1st place. Without the playoff race, the last several months of the season would have been pretty meaningless for 20 out of 22 teams, including AUFC. Making the playoffs and at least having a chance to advance is a helluva lot more exciting than just celebrating a 4th place finish.

    • Salary Caps: They are too low and we need to find enough revenue to raise them. But competitive balance matters, especially in a young, growing league. It would be pretty boring if MLS were just another 2-3 team league, like so many in Europe, where the wealth of the owner or strength of the brand dictates where a club will finish. We have mechanisms like the DP rule and allocation money that allow deep-pocketed teams to spend a little more and bring more talent into the league, but the playing field is pretty level for about 15 of the 20 spots on the senior roster, and that's a good thing.

    I go back and forth on pro/rel as well as the Mar-Oct MLS calendar as I think there are compelling pros and cons on both sides of those issues. But there are a couple things MLS does differently that I think make the league better.
     
  12. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    Wanted to respond to this separately as it's one of the key things I'd argue American sports leagues do BETTER than the rest of the world. We recognize, even in MLB, that competitive balance matters whereas other leagues simply don't have it and make no effort to foster it.
    • Bundesliga: 13 of the last 19 championships have been won by Bayern Munich, including the last 5 in a row, and they are in 1st place again. 20 of the last 24 titles have been claimed by just 2 teams, Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund.

    • La Liga: 28 of the last 33 championships have been won by either Real Madrid or Barcelona, including 11 of the last 12, and Barcelona is in 1st place again.

    • Serie A: Juventus has won the last 7 championships in a row and they're just 1 point out of 1st place again. 24 of the last 26 titles have been won by just 3 teams, Juventus, Inter, or Milan.

    • Ligue 1: A bit more balance here, but the dominant team just changes every 5 years or so. PSG has won 4 of the last 5 championships and they are in 1st place again. Not too long ago, Lyon won 7 years in a row.

    • EPL: The Big 5 European league with arguably the most balance, yet even here, 23 out of 25 championships have been claimed by just 4 teams, Man U, Man City, Chelsea, and Arsenal. And naturally, one of those 4 teams (Man City) is in 1st place again.
    It would be a bit of an exaggeration to say these are 1-2 team leagues, but it's simply undeniable that a select few are competitive every year and almost everyone else is irrelevant. When avoiding relegation is the ONLY thing you have to play for, and that status remains unchanged for decades at a time, it takes a lot of the fun out of it.

    Here in the US, we've had 10 different champions in the last 14 years and no team should ever feel like they have no chance as every season is completely different from the last one.
     
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  13. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I knew there was one I left out. Yeah, that's probably the biggest negative they could possibly have come up with.

    I don't think pro/rel will work here anytime soon. We don't have enough support for second-tier sports teams to make anyone continue to invest in a team that might one day become second-tier. As you pointed out, there have been MLS teams to fold already, and so many MLS clubs are already struggling to fill seats as it is. A relegated AUFC wouldn't draw 30K, let alone 70K. Less-connected clubs would fold or try to move.

    Now, as far as the salary cap? As an AUFC fan, I could be done with it. If the rule you mentioned goes thru and we get to spend more of what we earn instead of funneling it back into the league as a whole, we will have more $$ than most of the other clubs, if not all of 'em, most seasons. To whatever degree that translates into titles, I'm perfectly fine with being the Real Madrid or Bayern Munich of MLS*. Mind, I wouldn't want to be the Betis or Augsburg of MLS, but that role will almost certainly fall to some other club. The trick is keeping everyone else financially solvent and their fans interested while we win everything...

    *between the Falcons, the turf, the attendance, the atmosphere and the wins, we're already grudgingly respected or hated outright. Both are good for us publicitywise. Not saying Facebook is the best place to go see what people think about you, but when folks are posting that they can't wait for you to lose in the playoffs their team didn't even reach, when your club is one of six that play on turf but the only one whose turf gets brought up in convos, you know they're thinking about you. A lot. We're already America's MLS team and we haven't even won anything yet. LA isn't going to have the attendance to change that.
     
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  14. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That actually encourages me, despite what I said above. It means our time will come eventually. The way we're playing now may mean it'll come sooner than later.

    This is concerning. We're set up in such a way that we really should do next year what we did this year, perhaps even better because we won't have that marathon of matches late like we just had. It wasn't luck. I just wish we could have used some of those NE goals against DCU. We'd probably still be playing.
     
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  15. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    I'm actually not an advocate for pro/rel either, at least not anytime soon. A young, growing league needs stability or you can't get the investments necessary to move forward. Would an owner spend $275 million on a new SSS if they knew their team could get relegated after just one bad season? And you certainly can't negotiate a good TV deal if ESPN/Fox/Univision are worried whether the league's most valuable brands, like LA Galaxy, could disappear from their broadcast lineup at any time (they'd be relegated if we had pro/rel this year). So, although I like certain aspects of it, I don't think it would be a good business decision for MLS, at least not at this stage of the league's evolution.

    As for the salary cap, a team with a deep-pocketed owner can already out-spend the competition via DP spending. Toronto has a total payroll of over $20 million, despite the cap of less than $4 million. So, there's already some flexibility built-in for clubs that can or want to spend more. If they raise the allocation cap on proceeds from a player sale, that would help too as it would enable a club like AUFC to not only replace a player like Almiron, but greatly improve the rest of the roster as well. Beyond that, I think it's wise to have a salary cap and keep the playing field reasonably level for the other 14-15 spots on the senior roster. Otherwise, you end up with 2-3 super-clubs and a bunch of others that can't compete. Hopefully, the salary cap itself will grow over time, especially via league expansion and with the next TV deal. That's the key. MLS is already doing a solid job at the gate, but we need to get people watching these games on TV. Do that and it will create a rising tide that lifts all boats.
     
  16. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    If Miggy and Joseph are back, I see no reason why AUFC wouldn't be even better next year:
    • With a year of games under their belt, the team knows how to play together and the Manager/Prez/Technical Director all know which guys to keep and which ones to release in order to upgrade the roster overall.

    • The 2018 schedule should be much easier to navigate. No front-loading with a ton of road games, at a time when the team is still trying to mesh and find it's identity, and no compressed schedule with 8 games in 23 days on the back-end to burn the team out going into the playoffs.

    • We also won't have to adjust to a different pitch in the middle of the season and the team played even better at MBS than Boddy Dodd, thanks in part I believe to the larger field dimensions and fast surface which suits our style of play.

    • You never know what will happen with injuries, but I would certainly hope and expect that Joseph Martinez wouldn't miss 17 starts due to injury for a 2nd year in a row. Our goals per game were cut in half when he was out of the lineup.
    That said, if we were to lose Almiron or Martinez via transfer, we can't be sure if their replacements would be as good, regardless of what we spend on the next DPs, and you also never know what will happen in terms of injuries, red cards, etc. So, just about any team's fortunes can change dramatically from one year to the next.

    But I won't sweat it. We have very capable management and coaching, an owner that is deeply committed to the club's success, and fan support that will ensure finances are never a limiting factor. So, any down-cycle we encounter should be brief.
     
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  17. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who do you protect for the expansion draft?

    HGP and GA players are exempt. We can protect XI.

    1. Almiron
    2. Martinez
    3. Villalba
    4. Asad
    5. Gonzalez Pirez
    6. Gressel
    7. Guzan
    8. Carmona
    9. Garza
    10. Walkes
    11. Vasquez

    We may lose: Larentowicz, Parkhurst, Boswell, Kratz, McCann, Jones, Williams, Ambrose, Kann, Heath, Mears, Loyd, Bloom, Wheeler-Ominou, Tabakis, Peterson, Otoo, Reynish

    Who I’d pick if I was LAFC , Kevin Kratz.
     
  18. Mabee

    Mabee Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Jul 26, 2017
    Do we have to protect Garza if his loan hasn't been re-upped (I haven't heard confirmation)? I think we have to find a way to protect Kann. I think he played too well last year to leave him unprotected as he looked like he could be the future back there. I'd leave Walkes unprotected instead because it isn't guaranteed he comes back on loan, or remains here on loan all of next year.
     
  19. Gunner

    Gunner Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Marietta, Ga USA
  20. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I’m happy to see us part ways with some of the dead weight. With some smart moves, we can really build off the first year and be the powerhouse we know we’re meant to be.
     
  21. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    We now know that Jones, Mears, Boswell, Tambakis, Reynish, Lloyd, Bloom, and Heath are on their way out (options not picked up or expired). Meanwhile, Walkes was on loan and it doesn't look like he'll be re-signed. Not sure yet about Garza or Asad, but for the purpose of this exercise, let's assume we sign them or get them on loan again and therefore need to protect them.

    Therefore I'd protect 10 of the same 11 you indicated, except replace Walkes with either Ambrose, Kratz, or Kann. Ambrose is still young and played decent minutes for us. Kratz is a solid and fairly versatile sub who still has several productive years left. And it's important to retain Kann because he's our only backup GK with Tambakis and Reynish leaving, plus he has trade value as he's good enough to be someone's starting GK.

    That also leaves Larentowicz exposed (assuming we're able to re-sign him), but I don't see LAFC picking a 34-year old veteran via the expansion draft. Meanwhile, McCann has potential, but his cap hit might be too high for another club to target him.

    If we think Goslin is ready to be the primary backup/sub for Carmona, then protect either Ambrose or Kann and leave Kratz exposed.

    That said, we seem poised to make some acquisitions as well and that will factor into all of this as we can't assume the current depth chart is what we'll actually have a couple months from now.
     
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  22. Coyote89

    Coyote89 Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 18, 2017
    Actually, I need to correct my own post as I don't think we would need to protect players on loan as they technically aren't ours to protect. So, scratch Garza, Asad, and Walkes and replace them with younger players like Robinson, Ambrose, etc.

    That said, if we can only protect 11, I can't see us protecting more than 1 GK, so Kann could be exposed and if so, he could be taken as he's good enough to be a starter and anytime you can land a starter via the expansion draft, that's a big win. So, I'd expect LAFC to target Kann if he's not protected.
     
  23. Gunner

    Gunner Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Marietta, Ga USA
    Not sure I was aware of this but it appears as though Atlanta has a purchase option of Asad for $2M. This is not a case of waiting on his parent to make a decision on loaning him back out but of Atlanta pulling the trigger on making him a full time employee of the club

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017...acker-yamil-asad-waiting-decision-loan-option


    I've seen further speculation that the club may be waiting for the league to rule on salary cap/TAM figures for 2018 before acting. Perhaps the club can remove his DP status through TAM ala LGP and free up a spot for higher priced talent?
     
  24. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we could buy down Villalba, maybe Barco would be the better option. Although, it would be a shame to lose out on Asad.
     

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